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I like it.:
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Posted by Itas on September 12, 1999 at 02:02:47:

In Reply to: perfecting skills, pros, cons, RP effects. posted by ElmasterI on September 11, 1999 at 05:36:45:

OK, there is only one class where you really HAVE to master your skills/spells and that's invoker. Bard with sing and transmuter with spapeshift skills come close, but you can get away with not doing so. No other class HAS to master anything, get good at it (in the 90's) yes, but if you're worried about roleplay and can run well, you don't have to be the best fighter on the block...

Now if you want to play the best fighter, mage, etc. on the block you have the opportunity to try through practicing. It helps you develop your character through realistic means and requires you to invest time in that development. I'm playing a duergar right now, and its a pain in my ass to practice up my skills, but I know damn well that I want to! I want to be able to kick ass, not just roleplay or do average and part of that involves hard work.

In this way it is actually a roleplaying tool, if you want to really be tough in a roleplaying sense, you should be willing to put in the time required by that role practicing. If you aren't pk driven and just want to roleplay that, then you roleplay an average fighter who has to realise that their gonna get beat on by someone who is more dedicated to the arts of war. How is this not enhancing roleplay? It forces you to do so.

It does matter in fighting as well, practicing allows a slightly-below average to slightly above average skill level player to get an edge over the compition and fight at the above average level. Its true that most of the elite players practice like crazy, and most novice to average don't... not that you're going to take out an elite player just becuase you practiced a bunch, but you might be able to take out average to above average with more consistency.

>
> Ive been playing CF for going on three years now, longer than many, shorter than many. I know more than some, less than some. I am not elite, and I am not a newbie. In short, I can find my ass with two hands and a map. But I do now want to comment on the trend of skill and spell mastery.

> As far as game mechanics one cannot argue that perfecting skills/spells does not do ones character good. On a merely mechanical level. It does enhance your chances of hitting more, casting stronger/more potently ect. Though I also agree, and it is a fact, that a poor player with all his skills/spells mastered will nearly always die to a more experienced and prepared player. But, the one with perfected skills may last a bit longer than one without. My arguement stands that perfect skills are good for your character.

> But now, let us take a step back and ask ourselves a question. Are we playing a roleplaying game? Or are we playing a killing game? Or are we playing both? This IS an individual choice, each of us sees CF as a different beast. Rampant Level sitting pkers, and then more RP oreinted chars that revel in Troupe, or other RP device oreinted classes.

> Now I will get into my more controversial part of this post. On a roleplaying level I do not understand the reliance on perfecting ones skill. At what stage in a mans life does he suddently realize that he has perfected something. At what stage does a swordmaster know that he has learned all there is to learn about his weapon? At what stage does a priest know he has learned all there is about serving God. Basically, as far as in character roleplaying is concerened, there is no possible way for anyone to truely guage how well learned in something a person is until they see them use it. Player1 asking player2 "How well do you know the sword?" and being answered "I have it at 89%" does seem silly. That is similar to asking me how well I know how to drive my car. I cant put it into a number i.e. "I am 89% profecient in the operation of my car" Basically, I believe setting skill requirements is detrimental to the RP behind each of our characters.
>
> As for mage classes. I Love the idea of having to learn spells to a certain level before gaining a more advanced spell. That seems not only logical, but practical. As ones studies continue, he may learn new tricks ect. It also helps teach the mage when, and when not to use a certain spell. But I do not agree that the spell must be completely mastered before this spell is learned. In my opinion it should be much like the assassins kicks, or even a little more random...for example, for every % above 90 you get a chance to learn the next spell, and this is tested off a characters int.

> To end, there is no such thing as perfection...well that girl in my anthropology class was close...so requiring it in the game is in my opinion not a very good thing.
> I welcome any discussion of this, or any other ideas. This is afterall just my opinion.

> AL

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Comments:	> OK, there is only one class where you really HAVE to master your skills/spells and that's invoker. Bard with sing and transmuter with spapeshift skills come close, but you can get away with not doing so. No other class HAS to master anything, get good at it (in the 90's) yes, but if you're worried about roleplay and can run well, you don't have to be the best fighter on the block... > Now if you want to play the best fighter, mage, etc. on the block you have the opportunity to try through practicing. It helps you develop your character through realistic means and requires you to invest time in that development. I'm playing a duergar right now, and its a pain in my ass to practice up my skills, but I know damn well that I want to! I want to be able to kick ass, not just roleplay or do average and part of that involves hard work. > In this way it is actually a roleplaying tool, if you want to really be tough in a roleplaying sense, you should be willing to put in the time required by that role practicing. If you aren't pk driven and just want to roleplay that, then you roleplay an average fighter who has to realise that their gonna get beat on by someone who is more dedicated to the arts of war. How is this not enhancing roleplay? It forces you to do so. > It does matter in fighting as well, practicing allows a slightly-below average to slightly above average skill level player to get an edge over the compition and fight at the above average level. Its true that most of the elite players practice like crazy, and most novice to average don't... not that you're going to take out an elite player just becuase you practiced a bunch, but you might be able to take out average to above average with more consistency. > > > > > Ive been playing CF for going on three years now, longer than many, shorter than many. I know more than some, less than some. I am not elite, and I am not a newbie. In short, I can find my ass with two hands and a map. But I do now want to comment on the trend of skill and spell mastery. > > As far as game mechanics one cannot argue that perfecting skills/spells does not do ones character good. On a merely mechanical level. It does enhance your chances of hitting more, casting stronger/more potently ect. Though I also agree, and it is a fact, that a poor player with all his skills/spells mastered will nearly always die to a more experienced and prepared player. But, the one with perfected skills may last a bit longer than one without. My arguement stands that perfect skills are good for your character. > > But now, let us take a step back and ask ourselves a question. Are we playing a roleplaying game? Or are we playing a killing game? Or are we playing both? This IS an individual choice, each of us sees CF as a different beast. Rampant Level sitting pkers, and then more RP oreinted chars that revel in Troupe, or other RP device oreinted classes. > > Now I will get into my more controversial part of this post. On a roleplaying level I do not understand the reliance on perfecting ones skill. At what stage in a mans life does he suddently realize that he has perfected something. At what stage does a swordmaster know that he has learned all there is to learn about his weapon? At what stage does a priest know he has learned all there is about serving God. Basically, as far as in character roleplaying is concerened, there is no possible way for anyone to truely guage how well learned in something a person is until they see them use it. Player1 asking player2 "How well do you know the sword?" and being answered "I have it at 89%" does seem silly. That is similar to asking me how well I know how to drive my car. I cant put it into a number i.e. "I am 89% profecient in the operation of my car" Basically, I believe setting skill requirements is detrimental to the RP behind each of our characters. > > > > As for mage classes. I Love the idea of having to learn spells to a certain level before gaining a more advanced spell. That seems not only logical, but practical. As ones studies continue, he may learn new tricks ect. It also helps teach the mage when, and when not to use a certain spell. But I do not agree that the spell must be completely mastered before this spell is learned. In my opinion it should be much like the assassins kicks, or even a little more random...for example, for every % above 90 you get a chance to learn the next spell, and this is tested off a characters int. > > To end, there is no such thing as perfection...well that girl in my anthropology class was close...so requiring it in the game is in my opinion not a very good thing. > > I welcome any discussion of this, or any other ideas. This is afterall just my opinion. > > AL

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