Posted by Lachdanan on October 15, 1999 at 06:19:53:
In Reply to: You are misinformed about a few things, strangely enough, given who you are. posted by Diarmuid/Graatch on October 14, 1999 at 16:38:54:
> I'll write where I respond to specific things below. Yes yes, I know, I've been told about Pillar being two rounds. My mistake. Since when? How can a healer hurt an Imperial Antipaladin, both at hero ranks? Probably just as often as you can hurt a hero rager bloodthirsting, a healer can harm the Imperial Anti-Paladin. Yes, healers aren't meant to be player-killers, they are meant to give help to groups. Invokers are a mixture of both. Great at pking some classes, at some levels, but also great at helping a group, with shields and raw damage (on mobs). I can give other examples, if you want: Arcane muter vs. Entropy Lich, Dawn thief vs. Imperial Duergar Axe spec (good example Arolin, thanks, I'll use it), and I'm sure there are more. So don't cast. Load up on +dam eq to have in your inventory, a nice noremove mace, and just walk in and beat the poor rager to death. You get two attacks for probably MUTILATES (with good gear) and he gets 8 attacks for hits and injures (and that's if he gets ALL attacks, dual wielding). Considering you will have at least twice his hp, you'll either kill him or make him run. Instead, you tried every single invoker spell on baned thirsting ragers, and gave them...well, let's count...50 invoker spells (roughly) multiplied by 4 free hits (more or less) a total of 200 free hits you gave them. Yikes. > If you have to go get elementals that means the powers of the invoker are not up to the fight at all. Invokers are damage-spell-blasters. But they can wear +dam eq and a mace just like any healer. So again, if you want solely things you can do within yourself, here's one. > You obviously haven't done this very often. First, notice that every rager assassin hero, for example, is an arail -- taishanrawr, veshiko, etc. And lots of cloud giants -- who all fly right over quicksand. There's a reason for this, I'd wager. Quicksand screwed their lives for so long and they saw others get screwed for so long that they said 'hey, screw this, I'm making someone that flies.' Point is that my suggestion wasn't a cure, it was just that, a suggestion. But even so, I did exactly what you suggested. The conglaciation did lower case damage on them, Lachdanan. In two ticks of them being trapped in quicksand, I got a decimate! MASSACRE and devastate!. Two lower case damages and one upper case. Not even mangle. That did, well, pretty much nothing to them as you can see. But if you were in there hitting them with your trusty mace of dragonis or equivalent, that MASSACRES would come in handy. So long as you weren't giving them 4 free hits every other round. > And another thing, saying that bloodthirst and spellbane are only 3 tick powers is misleading. No, it isn't. A hero warrior probably has...roughly...400 mana at his disposal. Truesight is 50, thirst is 5, spellbane is 50, resist is 50. At 105 mana every three ticks, he's going to run out before he can truesight again. I won't even go into him trying to keep up warcry, or berserk in combat. > The issue I spoke to regarding multiple foes was completely separate from the bloodthirsting/area spellbane one. The issue there was one I've had all four years I've been here, which is that many people break/leave their roleplay, they break the role of the char they have chosen to play, in order to get a pk win. I agree with you 100% on this, I think the roleplay of those ragers in your log was utterly shitty. If you aren't here to complain about losing, just the poor roleplay, then 'nuff said, IMHO, you are just plain right. I disagree here. Many classes don't stand a chance without some form of external help. Try fighting a Master Invoker as an Imperial sword-spec without shields and/or haste and you'll see what I mean. Also see my example above. As for the stuff below, I'm not going to comment on it, I'm probably just wrong on all of it. My real point was that you saying that every class should have a chance to beat every other class alone without going to get other things isn't true, and never has been.
> If you need an external source, that means the class is not enough by itself to do anything. That means there is no longer balance. Each class should be able to affect/fight every other class,
>at least to some extent, and be able to harm every other class, at least to some extent, even if it's not easy. As it is now, not a single spell, nothing, will hurt the rager. Instead, even attempting to cast it, will harm the invoker.
> That's right, no mobs. One on one every single class should be able to fight every single class with just the skills/spells that were coded for that class. If an invoker has to go get mobs, something is wrong and things are not well balanced.