Posted by Imbrogno(VIP) on September 8, 2000 at 12:18:58:
In Reply to: You would have fared poorly at Nuremberg. posted by Truzenzuzex(VIP) on September 8, 2000 at 10:45:14:
> Agreed, for the most part. When I was Elder and Lord I also had no problems flagging for simply stepping into the Hall, unless it was a Baron, and if the Baron came in to just chit chat or stand there for lots of time, flag flag flag. However, given that there is the specific exemption from that rule for retrieving barons, and given that fighting there to defend or take it back is part of that process, it seems absurd to me that a flag for attacking an arbiter there would be even considered, let alone allowed. I'm glad Stoltrop wasn't around when these guys were Arbiters, as a thief I wanted the initial attack to blackjack and so flee and return to blackjack was a staple.
It comes down to who is Lord or Elder at the time. Lately the imms have taken a more hands-off approach to Arbiters and thus what a Lord or Elder says generally goes. Read more on this below.
> I dont know what you mean "until he found out the whole story." He _was_ the whole story. Unless I misread the log, it was fuath who the baron attacked and so fuath knew the whole story the whole time. Obviously he didn't think it was against the law at the time it occurred (and by his refusal to respond to the barons questions at the end I suspect he still thinks it was not breaking the law) and so it was not a question of his getting the whole story, it was his having mentioned it to grislan and grislan making up new law and forcing fuath to do it. Which brings us to the next point...
I meant "whole story" as in getting the advice from a higher up. I couldn't bring myself to read the entirety of the log closely, because it grates my nerves when people whine and bitch about flag placements, especially as a baron, but I was under the impression that Fuath more asked about the situation than just mentioning it in passing.
>
> >Grislan said place the flag, Fuath placed the flag.
>
> I dont ever remember a higher up telling someone to place a flag, or forcing another arbiter to place a flag. On the contrary, it is almost always a question of should a flag be removed, or not placed at all. As you said, if it's your case, you decide. Fuath had already decided not to place a flag -- he didn't see a crime in the first place, as I also would not have when I was an arbiter. I'm not even convinced that a Lord or Elder _can_ force somenoe to place a flag. It seems like it's against the code for arbiters. You place a flag when you believe it's warranted -- the whole 99% stuff rule. If someone else learns of something and wants to flag, that's their prerogative.
Again, I think maybe I wasn't clear enough, though perhaps I was. I can remember several instances where either myself or Quintius said "There's enough there to place the flag" but that statement was always qualified with "but as always it's entirely up to you whether you think it's warranted or not". I don't think I need to tell you what the inevitable outcome was.
> There was no warrant. There was no case. Fuath said it had happened in the past. Am I missing something?
I may have misinterpreted just how he mentioned it to Grislan.