Posted by Avshar on March 11, 2000 at 11:57:09:
In Reply to: In the know. posted by Thinhallen on March 11, 2000 at 09:42:46:
Never had a successful hero rager? Gee, thanks alot.
> I've had a few ragers and masters in my time so I think I should comment on both you and Klaak's comments. First Klaak you need to stop posting on combat strategy because though you may have some valid points you usually have a few invalid ones as well. Yes, being able to bloodthirst is a nice quality of being a berserker, but it isn't the godsend you may think and can be used against a rager quite easily. First of all if you're a thirsting rager in trouble, chances are you're not going to get away unless you have luck going your way. It's never been where thirst keeps you from fleeing, I'm not sure where you got that from. It was true though that you couldn't thirst without being in combat, but you could always flee.
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> > Secondly, you pretty well are immune to all first attacks using bloodthirst, that's another huge advantage. This is a grossly overpowered skill, that has no disadvantage any longer.
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> Yes, and any lowbie necromancer or shaman can ruin your day. Any thief can still ruin your day. Any assassin can still prepare to kill you. Plus if the shit hits the fan, they just have to walk into the room for you to piss your pants again. Why can ragers flee while thirsted? My thinking is because you may not want to be fighting a zombie while a necromancer watches in glee.
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> I don't know where you got that masters and ragers avoid each other at all costs, but a rager's life is always spent fighting masters, either raiding them or defending against them. Of course, you have to deal with Empire as well which is always a joy. That independent mage sure will have some problems dealing with a rager, but it's not impossible for them. A skilled player can deal with a rager rather decently as a mage if they know how to exploit a rager's weaknesses. Three mages should definitely be able to deal with a rager. It all comes down to your skill level. If you gangbang, go right ahead, but if you post your gangbang and are oh so proud of it, that's another thing.
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> > Ragers bloodthirst prevents fleeing and they will attack anything in room, even destructor I believe.
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> I'm not sure where you got this, but it's not true.
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> > Ragers still had deathblow when item lost but no true sight.
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> No ragers did not have deathblow either without the head. Hell while I had Alodar my favorite thing to do was leave an alarm outside of mirkwood, tess to the elf-king, and crush down Holtzendorff straight out of invisibility so the head wouldn't have to be picked up. It wasn't pretty on his part and some changes were made to make it a bit more fair. Then invokers came into play and barrier/shield/aura/stone skin as well making it real difficult for a master to even ponder doing anything but scourge. So changes were made to make masters employ a little more strategy in their fights with ragers. Along with the fact that one invoker could come to the giant and basically kill everyone with geyser or pillar if he wished. I did fine as Alodar with only sanc by exploiting rager weaknesses. Just look at what weaknesses you can exploit.
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> Actually back in the day ragers could use 'heal heal' at their healer.
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> > True sight only sees magic and invis now, no more hidden (whoop de doo)
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> That's a huge difference. Being able to see and being able to see all your enemies is a big difference.
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> > Phylacteries come into the game to cure plague and poison, I wonder why? Guess running back to healer was too much of a problem.
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> They aren't called phylacteries and they aren't as common as you think.
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> > When item lost, no more deathblow, but can still truesight (what the hell is this? ALL skills should be lost like other cabals).
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> Yes of course you can truesight without the head, and it doesn't hurt you whatsoever.
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> > Bloodthirst no longer prevents fleeing, read my rant above (this is a crock).
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> You're wrong about that once again.
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> > Since I feel pking with cabal skills is cheap when someone doesn't have any, I have stayed out of cabals completely for several years (so I am sure I have missed some smaller changes in the cabals which people can point out) Hell, if an invalid like Trell can make #2 on the pk list with his cheap rager crap, you know there is a problem with the cabal situation, even he said so himself.
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> You're entitled to live your life outside of a cabal and all the politics and RP'ing involved within. That's your choice to live with, but don't bitch because you can't deal with caballed people who have to deal with not having their powers and having to defend. Your problem with using Trell as an example of an overpowered rager is that he died alot and I don't see how you can be overpowered and still die. He's also never had a hero rager who has been successful.
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> So whatever your opinions as long as you stay on the sideline and not be part of the master/rager struggle, you can't really comment on the current situation like I can.
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> Ravenlok, Alodar, Thinhallen, Dvorak, Kurgan, Bolechim, Sendrik, Suthnas, Baldur, and Chitram.