Four points:

Four points::
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Posted by Tracker of the Wicked on July 14, 2000 at 10:43:10:

In Reply to: Proud Blade et al.: The Rules, Morality, and Immortality (VERY LONG) posted by The Arcane(VIP) on July 14, 2000 at 09:52:40:

Good post. Four points in response/clarification:

1. Your girlfriend (Player?) adds nothing to any thread she posts on except a psuedo-intellectual, condescending attitude. Literally. There is no substance: her words are consdescending fluff. I would imagine she not only expects to receive the same in response, she cackles in glee at it. Hence the "dearest." I do not see this as a reflection on you, and I do not feel that you should take responsibility for/defend her.

2. Immortal knowledge can be good for player knowledge. Two situations that illustrate this:

a. Eriwal. Eriwal was the first transmuter to receive a special form. He demonstrated the benefits of quality roleplaying, and stood as an example of what transmuters can accomplish in the game. You will also note, Arcane, that Eriwal heavily restricted his actions both PK and RP. I don't think I fought him outside a raiding situation more than a handful of times, and I do not think you did, either. He could have played a heavy role in Imperial politics, but he stayed in the background, not wanting to interfere. Yes, it sucks, but also, you have to admit the Immortal did take some personal responsibility to keep him from being abusive, and Eriwal did serve as a beacon for shifters. People are still talking about the Wolverine.

b. Aquervoq. Anyone heard of Defiance before him? HumanSunder? Again, Immortal knowledge benefits player knowledge, and the Immortal takes care not to be abusive with it.

3. Your main point seems to be that we not to look at Immortals as infallible real life Immortals. As far as I can see, literally, no one sees the Immortals in that light. No one has even suggested that we look at the Immortals in that way. What you've done is taken Proud Blade's comments out of context and attributed a meaning to them that did not exist until "Player" and you decided to pipe in.

4. My opinion: A long time ago, with my first character, Nepenthe and Shokai told me that there are Immortals in every cabal; that they are the silent, competent ones in the background. I still believe this, that the Immortals, with all their knowledge, set examples of tactics and innovations for other players to learn from, and thus, make the game more fun and complex -- all the while carefully remaining in the background and not abusing their knowledge.

In general, I think they do a good and careful job of this.

Proud Blade is recognizing that they do a good job of this.

- Proud Blade is not saying they are infallible.
- Proud Blade is not saying they are real life immortals.
- Proud Blade is not saying we should not question or debate rules.

Proud Blade is saying he feels the Immortals, on the whole, are doing a good job.

Follow Ups:

Re: Four points: Abernyte 06:23:12 7/17/2000 (0)
Re: Four points: The Arcane(VIP) 11:00:32 7/14/2000 (2)
- Re: That last part. Proud Blade(VIP) 13:59:19 7/14/2000 (0)
- All right. Sorry. Tracker 11:07:58 7/14/2000 (0)

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Comments:	> Good post. Four points in response/clarification: > > 1. Your girlfriend (Player?) adds nothing to any thread she posts on except a psuedo-intellectual, condescending attitude. Literally. There is no substance: her words are consdescending fluff. I would imagine she not only expects to receive the same in response, she cackles in glee at it. Hence the "dearest." I do not see this as a reflection on you, and I do not feel that you should take responsibility for/defend her. > 2. Immortal knowledge can be good for player knowledge. Two situations that illustrate this: > a. Eriwal. Eriwal was the first transmuter to receive a special form. He demonstrated the benefits of quality roleplaying, and stood as an example of what transmuters can accomplish in the game. You will also note, Arcane, that Eriwal heavily restricted his actions both PK and RP. I don't think I fought him outside a raiding situation more than a handful of times, and I do not think you did, either. He could have played a heavy role in Imperial politics, but he stayed in the background, not wanting to interfere. Yes, it sucks, but also, you have to admit the Immortal did take some personal responsibility to keep him from being abusive, and Eriwal did serve as a beacon for shifters. People are still talking about the Wolverine. > b. Aquervoq. Anyone heard of Defiance before him? HumanSunder? Again, Immortal knowledge benefits player knowledge, and the Immortal takes care not to be abusive with it. > 3. Your main point seems to be that we not to look at Immortals as infallible real life Immortals. As far as I can see, literally, no one sees the Immortals in that light. No one has even suggested that we look at the Immortals in that way. What you've done is taken Proud Blade's comments out of context and attributed a meaning to them that did not exist until "Player" and you decided to pipe in. > 4. My opinion: A long time ago, with my first character, Nepenthe and Shokai told me that there are Immortals in every cabal; that they are the silent, competent ones in the background. I still believe this, that the Immortals, with all their knowledge, set examples of tactics and innovations for other players to learn from, and thus, make the game more fun and complex -- all the while carefully remaining in the background and not abusing their knowledge. > In general, I think they do a good and careful job of this. > Proud Blade is recognizing that they do a good job of this. > - Proud Blade is not saying they are infallible. > - Proud Blade is not saying they are real life immortals. > - Proud Blade is not saying we should not question or debate rules. > Proud Blade is saying he feels the Immortals, on the whole, are doing a good job.

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