Posted by The Pumpkin King on September 22, 2000 at 23:57:46:
In Reply to: Okay, let me elaborate. The whining or wait till we're dead post was a bit short. (text within) posted by Another conjurer in agreement with the terse, yet true rebuttal. on September 22, 2000 at 18:57:53:
Good to see you're more than that... > within its convulusions and semantics, has neither a logical foundation upon which to rest itself, nor any reasoning one could take seriously. For example, listing a shortage of conjurer skills/spells when compared with, say, assassins, does nothing to discount a conjurer's prowess, instead demonstrating just how much more skilled a particular player is when confronted with such a handicap. That's the thing. This is a handicap that causes all conjurers to do very well defensive/offensive, or suck completely. >I concede that there is less control involved in being a conjurer in a way, particularly in combat situations, but it is that very fucking lack of control that distinguishes the average player from the expert one Covered a moment ago. There isn't average or expert with conjurers. > You sound like an assassin who has, too many times, attempted a feeble wrist-lock and been slaughtered mercilessly by a conjurer's servitors. Or not. >I like being a conjurer, I like the uncertainty, Ohhh.. yes.. the pleasant uncertainty of certainty! and I like the different ways one can be played: cautiously, with abandon, etc. As far as 'is it really possible that 10% of the population of Thera can bind other beings to their will or contact other planes'...hmm, is it really possible that someone can turn themselves completely flat, no longer existing in three but only two dimensions? Is it really possible that someone can shapeshift? Is it really possible that someone can breathe underwater or create lightning? Is it really fucking possible that groups of people possess items that when taken sap their power? Of course not. That's why it's fantasy. Conjuring beings and any of the above are no more or less probable. Yes they are. > Well, apparently I DID feel strongly about the subject. > > A different conjurer > > > Additions are great, everybody loves a new area, class, skill, spell, whatever. Assassins changed from a bland sort of class into one of the most interesting and challenging in the game. Yay. Everyone's happy. Then, conjurers come in... they look good, sure, on the outside, but they really just end up being a repetitive, boring example of what drags CF down. > > > To compare: > > > Total offensive (non-automatic) skills to choose in a fight (including kicks as one each for assassins). > > > Assassin: 24 > > > Unique skills? > > > Assassin: 20 > > > I leave out familiars as they really do not offer much in the way of making a fight more interesting. "Yay, my faerie dragon woke me up.. now I can go back to spamming magic missile!" > > > Skilled players prefer to actually DO something while engaged in a PK. It's much like the difference between driving an automatic and driving a stick shift... the experience can be visceral or flaccid. You're not really very much in control when playing a conjurer. Killing someone with an assassin, or with a warrior or a thief or an anti-paladin, is far more rewarding than with a conjurer, simply because you're steering the fight, using in-fight tactics. The concept of an interesting battle is negated by being or by being up against a conjurer. > > > My suggestion? > > > Remove conjurers. Remove them, and work on them for a while longer then put them back in (it's a great concept for a class, except for the fact that it doesn't work at all in practice). Or better yet, remove them and let them stay gone. Leave familiars as a skill to be given out where deserved, leave conjurations and tesseract and clairvoyance and the majority of conjurer spells in the game for certain powerful mobs and dedicated mage types who are willing and able to go through rigorous quests. Is it really plausible that 10%+ of Thera's populace has the ability to contact other planes and is strong enough to rip beings from those worlds into their own? In any fantasy setting I've ever read, conjuration is one of three things: 1- very very dangerous, often resulting in death for the foolhardy conjurer; 2- taboo, evil, something held in disdain and not even considered by most sentient beings as a reasonable course of action; or 3- reserved for the one omnipotent being in the book who has power, wisdom, endurance, and knowledge enough to be an effective conjurer. The problem with CF currently is that this one single guru of magic has been expanded to a third to a half of the populace at times. > > > At the very least let's get some angry daddy angels yanking conjurers from Thera to a room full of angry angels on some other plane occasionally.
> I disagree vehemently with Pumpkin boy's nonsensical assertions, and must point out that such an argument, while well worded and meant to sway the common mind
> > > Conjurer: 8 and six conjurations.
> > > Conjurer: Flash and conjurations.