One other point that I totally forgot:

One other point that I totally forgot::
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Posted by Umguy on October 19, 2000 at 12:47:05:

In Reply to: A few more comments (less long) posted by The Arcane(VIP) on October 19, 2000 at 11:52:53:

I'd like to hear that list of "highly skilled" to "damn good" range. Maybe not here, but maybe at some point. Then I'd like to go down that list and see how many were imms then, have immed and left immhood since then, or have immed and stayed an imm since then. Then I'd like to cross-check the list with smuggers, neosofties, and dikus. I'm betting that several of your list fit into the above categories. I'd also bet that some of the people on your list are actually the same guy playing two chars.

I also think a lot of the players weren't that good, but they found a "niche class/race/cabal combo" that made them good. Maybe one of the guys on your list kicked ass as a shifting muter but is now trying out the new paladins and just doesn't quite have it.

I still think your standards have risen, too. Back when you are talking about (especially as Challen), there were plenty of chars who couldn't find water if they fell off a boat. Finding a competant groupmate who knew when to slow you and haste you and such without asking for it was actually somewhat rare, and appreciated. Nowadays, if someone DOESN'T know that sort of thing, they are (at least by me) considered to be "too slow" to be elite.

As for you playing the svirf utility major and being feared? Well, maybe. I don't know. As far as I know, your last char was a paladin that didn't get past 30th. I don't want to be insulting, because you really are skilled, but let's look at the combos you've kicked serious ass with:

Storm blooded knight:
Fire axe/pole rager:
Uncaballed Invoker:
Arial sword/whip warrior in Empire during a strong time for Empire:
Arial berserker sword/whip rager:
Numerous conjies:

Now, I'd like to state that all of these combos are not the most difficult to have a good pk ratio with. Am I saying it was easy, or that you suck? No. I don't, however, think it makes you able to justifiably say that you could mop the floor up with most anyone by taking any race and class and cabal. That's why I used the druid example. No wands (you obviously know where all those are), no staves, no scrolls, no unicorn pendants, no etcheds, no nothing of that sort. I'm really trying not to be inflammatory here, but I think the IRC and ICQ and Forum groupies of yours may have gotten it into your head that you really are all that. You're skilled, but so are a lot of others. Everybody has a strong sort of class. Yours and mine seem to be similar, in that we are good at the brute force type classes but not at the 'tricky' classes. I suck at playing bards, because I have a hard time getting the timing right on the flee, return, sing cold shit. I never seem to have enough mana to get all the songs I want, etc. I'm pretty good with warriors, and also with conjies (though anyone can be good with a conjie if they have the patience). I suck as an assassinating assassin, but I'm pretty good with a brute force assassin. I think you get my point. You probably could do just fine with a utility major svirf, because you could shift and go. But I've never seen you play a shaman, or even a necro.

Follow Ups:

Was waiting for someone to call me on that :P The Arcane(VIP) 13:08:02 10/19/2000 (2)
- That's a good point: Umguy 13:20:00 10/19/2000 (1)
  - Oh, how I know that feeling .. Soren(VIP) 14:30:27 10/19/2000 (0)

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Comments:	> I'd like to hear that list of "highly skilled" to "damn good" range. Maybe not here, but maybe at some point. Then I'd like to go down that list and see how many were imms then, have immed and left immhood since then, or have immed and stayed an imm since then. Then I'd like to cross-check the list with smuggers, neosofties, and dikus. I'm betting that several of your list fit into the above categories. I'd also bet that some of the people on your list are actually the same guy playing two chars. > I also think a lot of the players weren't that good, but they found a "niche class/race/cabal combo" that made them good. Maybe one of the guys on your list kicked ass as a shifting muter but is now trying out the new paladins and just doesn't quite have it. > I still think your standards have risen, too. Back when you are talking about (especially as Challen), there were plenty of chars who couldn't find water if they fell off a boat. Finding a competant groupmate who knew when to slow you and haste you and such without asking for it was actually somewhat rare, and appreciated. Nowadays, if someone DOESN'T know that sort of thing, they are (at least by me) considered to be "too slow" to be elite. > As for you playing the svirf utility major and being feared? Well, maybe. I don't know. As far as I know, your last char was a paladin that didn't get past 30th. I don't want to be insulting, because you really are skilled, but let's look at the combos you've kicked serious ass with: > Storm blooded knight: > Fire axe/pole rager: > Uncaballed Invoker: > Arial sword/whip warrior in Empire during a strong time for Empire: > Arial berserker sword/whip rager: > Numerous conjies: > Now, I'd like to state that all of these combos are not the most difficult to have a good pk ratio with. Am I saying it was easy, or that you suck? No. I don't, however, think it makes you able to justifiably say that you could mop the floor up with most anyone by taking any race and class and cabal. That's why I used the druid example. No wands (you obviously know where all those are), no staves, no scrolls, no unicorn pendants, no etcheds, no nothing of that sort. I'm really trying not to be inflammatory here, but I think the IRC and ICQ and Forum groupies of yours may have gotten it into your head that you really are all that. You're skilled, but so are a lot of others. Everybody has a strong sort of class. Yours and mine seem to be similar, in that we are good at the brute force type classes but not at the 'tricky' classes. I suck at playing bards, because I have a hard time getting the timing right on the flee, return, sing cold shit. I never seem to have enough mana to get all the songs I want, etc. I'm pretty good with warriors, and also with conjies (though anyone can be good with a conjie if they have the patience). I suck as an assassinating assassin, but I'm pretty good with a brute force assassin. I think you get my point. You probably could do just fine with a utility major svirf, because you could shift and go. But I've never seen you play a shaman, or even a necro.

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