My thoughts on the matter.

My thoughts on the matter.:
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Posted by Pelnebreus on November 23, 2000 at 02:03:17:

In Reply to: And that, is the $64,000 dollar question... posted by Flontinot on November 22, 2000 at 09:40:22:

Alright, a disclaimer first: I think I wrote more than I should have, and I may have rambled or repeated a bunch of crap that doesn't make sense or have any relevance. The reason? I'm so very very tired. Oh man, am I tired. Read it if you want, but I'm probably going to regret posting this in the morning. (Happy Turkey-Day by the way, all you fellow Americans ;-) )

> I thought not. I also thought I could change the Cabal, but I changed it for the blink of an eye at best.

The way that you changed the Sylvan cabal certainly made things more interesting. I'll take some of the blame for changing things back to the "deathsquadish" way of things... It needed to happen though.

> There's a hell of a lot of forest out there, that is never trod on by most Sylvans.

This bothers me as well. I'm doing what I can to crack down on the dwarf forest-sitters and I'm heavily encouraging exploration and experiencing new things.

> The odd thing about the Sylvan Cabal, is while a good potion of them are bloodthirsty fiends, all of them are quality roleplayers. So it's kind of hard to crack down on them. And yes, Asihara, there are deathsquads. There is no argument there. I however, have solutions...

Before you start coming up with solutions, you have to ask yourself if it's really a problem in the first place. Two reasons: First, I don't think there's been a quarter of the uproar over summoning between centurions as there has been over simply walking into a wall of thorns. There are some differences, of course, but essentially it's the same thing. If you're an enemy of the Empire, stay the hell off of the eastern road and out of Balator or wherever else centurions frequent. If you're an enemy of the sylvan warders, stay the hell out of the wilderness areas unless you're totally and utterly prepared to be jumped. Second, there are a few ways you could look at the Sylvan cabal. While Flontinot saw it as a bunch of happy tree-huggers (nothing wrong with that), Pelnebreus sees it as something that nature has created to defend itself, and nature isn't exactly a completely peaceful thing, though it does have its happy, loving moments. Think white blood cells fighting foreign bacteria :P

> 1) Sylvan Shamans will lose the supplication summon. You want to be a Sylvan shaman because of your role? Prove it.

> 2) Insect swarm will work only in the wilderness.

> 3) Wall of Thorns can be called once every 72 hours.

Warders are supposed to be incredibly deadly in the wilderness. I see no reason why an enemy to the warders shouldn't be scared shitless of going into any forested/wilderness areas. Insect swarm is the only warder power that will work in cities, and though it kicks a fair amount of ass, I'm telling you now that it in itself does not win the battles for you.

> 4) Induction standards must be much higher. I take
> some blame for letting some in I shouldn't have.

I agree with 4 in a way... Inductions are tough at times, cause of the fact that there is more than one dimension to "standards"... There are some people that obviously put an incredible amount of effort into all aspects of their characters, but they still end up being mediocre due to newbie-ism or some other factor. Here's where you have to make that decision: Do I induct this person, who will definitely give it all that they've got and really try to improve and do everything right, or say "Uhm, no. You're not fit for us." All I ask is that people try to roleplay. If you can't PK worth a squat, fine. If you can, great! A warder that defends during raids, has some depth to their character and keeps other characters from 'defiling' whether or not they strike fear into the hearts of every enemy is a good warder, in my opinion.

> This is by no means meant to knock any Sylvan. They take advantage of what they have, pure and simple, nothing wrong with that. However, I've always thought, next to Troupe, and in certain cases, even above Troupe, Sylvan should be the Elite roleplaying Cabal. PK should run a distant second. As of now it doesn't. Please don't bother arguing that point, I support the Sylvan Cabal as much as anyone, but it's something that I think everyone, if honest with themselves, will see as fact.

This does not go only for the Sylvan cabal. Everyone should roleplay plenty. Everyone in cabals should have a role that they have spent some time on, and are willing to develop. Everyone in cabals should concentrate on roleplaying first and foremost, I agree. However, when bloodshed is part of that role, PKing occasionally at the very least is unavoidable. The greatest roleplayers in all of the cabals have done their fair share of PKing (Except maybe dawn and troupe). As it's been said before by others, Thera's a violent place, so don't act surprised if you end up getting hunted by someone that you've wronged somehow. If you don't want to have to fight the people you piss off, avoid them, make up with them or the most popular choice, run around acting like they don't exist til you die to them, then post on the forum about how overpowered they are.

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Comments:	> Alright, a disclaimer first: I think I wrote more than I should have, and I may have rambled or repeated a bunch of crap that doesn't make sense or have any relevance. The reason? I'm so very very tired. Oh man, am I tired. Read it if you want, but I'm probably going to regret posting this in the morning. (Happy Turkey-Day by the way, all you fellow Americans ;-) ) > > I thought not. I also thought I could change the Cabal, but I changed it for the blink of an eye at best. > The way that you changed the Sylvan cabal certainly made things more interesting. I'll take some of the blame for changing things back to the "deathsquadish" way of things... It needed to happen though. > > There's a hell of a lot of forest out there, that is never trod on by most Sylvans. > This bothers me as well. I'm doing what I can to crack down on the dwarf forest-sitters and I'm heavily encouraging exploration and experiencing new things. > > The odd thing about the Sylvan Cabal, is while a good potion of them are bloodthirsty fiends, all of them are quality roleplayers. So it's kind of hard to crack down on them. And yes, Asihara, there are deathsquads. There is no argument there. I however, have solutions... > Before you start coming up with solutions, you have to ask yourself if it's really a problem in the first place. Two reasons: First, I don't think there's been a quarter of the uproar over summoning between centurions as there has been over simply walking into a wall of thorns. There are some differences, of course, but essentially it's the same thing. If you're an enemy of the Empire, stay the hell off of the eastern road and out of Balator or wherever else centurions frequent. If you're an enemy of the sylvan warders, stay the hell out of the wilderness areas unless you're totally and utterly prepared to be jumped. Second, there are a few ways you could look at the Sylvan cabal. While Flontinot saw it as a bunch of happy tree-huggers (nothing wrong with that), Pelnebreus sees it as something that nature has created to defend itself, and nature isn't exactly a completely peaceful thing, though it does have its happy, loving moments. Think white blood cells fighting foreign bacteria :P > > 1) Sylvan Shamans will lose the supplication summon. You want to be a Sylvan shaman because of your role? Prove it. > > 2) Insect swarm will work only in the wilderness. > > 3) Wall of Thorns can be called once every 72 hours. > Warders are supposed to be incredibly deadly in the wilderness. I see no reason why an enemy to the warders shouldn't be scared shitless of going into any forested/wilderness areas. Insect swarm is the only warder power that will work in cities, and though it kicks a fair amount of ass, I'm telling you now that it in itself does not win the battles for you. > > 4) Induction standards must be much higher. I take > > some blame for letting some in I shouldn't have. > I agree with 4 in a way... Inductions are tough at times, cause of the fact that there is more than one dimension to "standards"... There are some people that obviously put an incredible amount of effort into all aspects of their characters, but they still end up being mediocre due to newbie-ism or some other factor. Here's where you have to make that decision: Do I induct this person, who will definitely give it all that they've got and really try to improve and do everything right, or say "Uhm, no. You're not fit for us." All I ask is that people try to roleplay. If you can't PK worth a squat, fine. If you can, great! A warder that defends during raids, has some depth to their character and keeps other characters from 'defiling' whether or not they strike fear into the hearts of every enemy is a good warder, in my opinion. > > This is by no means meant to knock any Sylvan. They take advantage of what they have, pure and simple, nothing wrong with that. However, I've always thought, next to Troupe, and in certain cases, even above Troupe, Sylvan should be the Elite roleplaying Cabal. PK should run a distant second. As of now it doesn't. Please don't bother arguing that point, I support the Sylvan Cabal as much as anyone, but it's something that I think everyone, if honest with themselves, will see as fact. > This does not go only for the Sylvan cabal. Everyone should roleplay plenty. Everyone in cabals should have a role that they have spent some time on, and are willing to develop. Everyone in cabals should concentrate on roleplaying first and foremost, I agree. However, when bloodshed is part of that role, PKing occasionally at the very least is unavoidable. The greatest roleplayers in all of the cabals have done their fair share of PKing (Except maybe dawn and troupe). As it's been said before by others, Thera's a violent place, so don't act surprised if you end up getting hunted by someone that you've wronged somehow. If you don't want to have to fight the people you piss off, avoid them, make up with them or the most popular choice, run around acting like they don't exist til you die to them, then post on the forum about how overpowered they are.

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