Okay Kstat. Name one company. If Russia economy is doing great, where are the russian Companies worth a shit? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_by_revenue Oh Gazprom? Largest Russian Company - only #49 on the List. Was previously yet another failed business until Mikhail Khodorkovsky took control and transformed it into the biggest oil producer. Becomes richest man in Russia, Putin wants his cut, Mikhail says no, and look what fucking happens: That's the famous "Oligarch in a cage" image from Putin.. 10 years of labor camp.. later gets pardoned by Putin. Putin gains control of Gazprom. https://medium.com/@cunninghamjeff/mikhail-khodorkovsky-ebc564403aa5 In what universe are you living? As soon as any money is made in Russia, there's your mafia sticking out their hands demanding a cut. Do you honestly believe that's good for business / your country? Lol http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119091#msg-1119091 Tue, 14 Apr 2026 07:25:58 -0400 Phorum 5.2.23 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119963#msg-1119963 America was effectively a loligarchy until postmodernists ended the child beauty contests. nt http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119963#msg-1119963 Flipside Oreo OT Board Tue, 09 Oct 2018 13:34:10 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119567#msg-1119567 a makeup entrepreneur on social media. nt http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119567#msg-1119567 The Forsaken OT Board Fri, 07 Sep 2018 16:00:08 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119546#msg-1119546 Marxist-Leninist-Maoist? http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119546#msg-1119546 Rhyaldrin OT Board Wed, 05 Sep 2018 21:37:26 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119545#msg-1119545 i knew you were an MLMer nt http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119545#msg-1119545 The Forsaken OT Board Wed, 05 Sep 2018 21:02:32 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119527#msg-1119527 What needs explaining? (n/t) http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119527#msg-1119527 Kstatida OT Board Tue, 04 Sep 2018 03:15:30 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119518#msg-1119518 What do you mean Ukraine’s only THINK they are at war with Russia? (n/t) http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119518#msg-1119518 Quas OT Board Mon, 03 Sep 2018 15:25:57 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119517#msg-1119517 Re: That judgment is wrong because of several factors http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119517#msg-1119517
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daurwyn
-- surely your inability to multinationalise then causes your economy to underperform?

It's the other way around. Your ability to multinationalise causes your economy to overperform. We're working on that, as you may see.

Quote

2. "And that's partly because, I suspect, that it's not viewed as a reliable partner because of the political interference."

That's really funny, because Russian companies, specially state-owned, don't break their contract duties because of political interference ever.

-- are you joking?

Do I look like I'm joking? I tend to see this as a media-inflicted bias which has no real substance. If there is evidence of Russian companies breaking their contracted obligations, I'd be happy to see those.


Quote

-- debatable. Somehow the commercial decisions seem to align with the political ones these days. Eg Ukraine's gas.

What's with the Ukraine's gas? We are keeping our end of the gas deal with Ukraine even right now, when half of Ukraine thinks it's at war with Russia. And I'm yet to see any breach of contract on our behalf.


Quote

-- does their well-being include the right to criticise Putin? Does it include the right for families to talk about how their kids died on military "adventure"?

That's pretty weak, irrelevant and unmeasurable. Measurable is demographics and poverty, like human development index is a more or less fine metric.]]> Kstatida OT Board Mon, 03 Sep 2018 06:26:30 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119516#msg-1119516 Russia was effectively an oligarchy until 2003-2005 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119516#msg-1119516
Funnily, one of oligarchs who was put down by the state is the famous Khodorkovskiy, whom physics likes to refer to as "effective businessman who tried to oppose Putin" :) The Khodorkovskiy's case was in its time instrumental in transfer of power from oligarchs to the state.

This is by the way why all the "personal" sanctions U.S. imposes on Russia now has no effect. Because their targets either have no leverage over power or are appointed figures.

Like Deripaska - has no power (the 2003 power transfer), and Sechin is appointed a CEO of Rosneft, he doesn't own it.]]> Kstatida OT Board Mon, 03 Sep 2018 06:02:19 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119490#msg-1119490 Re: Under trump this is less true http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119490#msg-1119490 physics OT Board Sat, 01 Sep 2018 08:19:53 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119487#msg-1119487 Under trump this is less true http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119487#msg-1119487
But then, who is ultimately driving the behaviour that causes that? Trump? Russia? Self serving politicians?

What's become apparent is that the us system is vulnerable to state capture.]]> daurwyn OT Board Sat, 01 Sep 2018 04:44:34 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119485#msg-1119485 Re: That judgment is wrong because of several factors http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119485#msg-1119485
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Kstatida
1. Oil and gas companies over there are all multinational companies with huge assets abroad. Russian companies don't have that privilege, they mainly operate inside Russia. So you try to compare multinational giants with Russia-operating companies and say "our country is cool because TNC that operates in 50 countries is registered here". Like BP's revenues over there include Rosneft revenues as well, because BP is a major Rosneft investor. Is that a Russian or English revenues? So that's not how company benchmarking works.

-- surely your inability to multinationalise then causes your economy to underperform?


2. "And that's partly because, I suspect, that it's not viewed as a reliable partner because of the political interference."

That's really funny, because Russian companies, specially state-owned, don't break their contract duties because of political interference ever.

-- are you joking?

Great example to that is Russia supplying natural gas to Europe since 1962, with no breakdowns, no matter what happens, war or not.

-- debatable. Somehow the commercial decisions seem to align with the political ones these days. Eg Ukraine's gas.

So I guess it's more about projecting. You impose sanctions and shit, drop projects and then accuse US with "not being reliable partners". It's the other way around, we don't see you guys as reliable partners, you've betrayed us way too many times.

3. It's about different psychology. We don't view biggest revenue as something of value. Something of value is the well-being of people.

-- does their well-being include the right to criticise Putin? Does it include the right for families to talk about how their kids died on military "adventure"?

Like recently there was a proposal of revenue withdraw from the largest mining and metals company in order to invest them into infrastructure projects - [www.bloomberg.com]. From the western POV, that's something really bad that makes our companies weaker, from our POV, that's a good thing that makes the country stronger. Long story short - you may measure company revenues all you want, we don't really give a shit about that benchmark.

-- ultimately Putin won't be that bothered what the money goes on as long as he gets his cut. Infrastructure projects (not just in Russia) are notoriously easy ways for the corrupt to grab money from the wider citizenry.]]> daurwyn OT Board Sat, 01 Sep 2018 04:38:20 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119484#msg-1119484 Kstalida has referenced many international news sources in the past http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119484#msg-1119484
Both Russia and US exert will through economic diplomacy.

The key difference is the structure of our political structures and whom they are designed to help. The gap between them had narrowed drastically in the last couple of decades. Russia is an oligarchy it serves the interests of a small group of decision makers. The US is one as well, though it has significantly more robust mechanisms to give the people a say. We are seeing a backlash against that degradation of democracy, ironically by throwing ourselves into the jaws of the wolves.


We are not that many dominos away from institutionalizing one party minority rule for a generation.]]> Quas OT Board Sat, 01 Sep 2018 01:26:46 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119483#msg-1119483 Follow-up question: Do you believe state-sponsored media is the best source of unbiased news on the actions of the state? http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119483#msg-1119483 Java OT Board Sat, 01 Sep 2018 00:59:33 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119482#msg-1119482 Way to put him on the spot, Java, you asshole. http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119482#msg-1119482 [www.youtube.com]]]> MiyagiYojimbo OT Board Fri, 31 Aug 2018 20:42:08 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119480#msg-1119480 Literally all of what you say is wrong and can only be seen as "true" from inside the New York Times http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119480#msg-1119480
Luckily for the rest of the world (and eventually for the U.S. as well), the pendulum has already reversed and is going down. It's our duty to try and keep it from going down in flames.]]> Kstatida OT Board Fri, 31 Aug 2018 16:04:19 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119479#msg-1119479 Exactly, I have no information on such, and I'm monitoring shit very closely (n/t) http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119479#msg-1119479 Kstatida OT Board Fri, 31 Aug 2018 15:53:28 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119478#msg-1119478 Yet again, several factors http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119478#msg-1119478
2) The case I posted is not about profits, it's about withdrawing revenue. The companies have forex revenues and like half of that is extracted. It's not exchange rate difference profit that's substracted, it was calculated as half of revenue after fx rate dropped in mid-14. Operational profit or loss - noone gives a shit.]]> Kstatida OT Board Fri, 31 Aug 2018 15:52:42 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119477#msg-1119477 Proof in the pudding http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119477#msg-1119477 The world does business with the United States.
The world studies in the United States.

Look, I'm not saying the United States has done a good job with foreign policy. What I am saying, is that the world has a lot of trust in the United States to
1) keep its word
2) not pull shady shit
3) continue to be a successful economic powerhouse
4) continue to be stable because of citizen rights / civil rights / free speech / (the foundation is pretty solid seeming)

The proof is in the pudding. USA is #1 economically, trade-wise, and military wise because the world has faith in our institutions, we have relatively low corruption, and fairly strong democracy which peacefully changes hands every 4 years. Am I blindly proud of our country? No - there's tons of room for improvement. Corruption is starting to really throttle our systems... But I look at where the Republican Party is taking us (they're trying to turn us into a Russia), and I start to get really fucking upset. A country run for the benefit of a few rich dudes is pathetic.

If the Russian Oligarchs (And Putin) put the interests of Russia ahead of their own interests, it would be a fantastic country. Unfortunately, they do not. I do not assume they are incompetent. I believe they know exactly what they are doing, and that is they are enriching themselves at the expense of the country. The results are undeniable. Russia should be a superpower, but greed is holding you back.]]> physics OT Board Fri, 31 Aug 2018 15:27:23 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119476#msg-1119476 Just to be clear. You are stating that Russia has absolutely never in recent history violated treaties or agreements which they've signed? nt http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119476#msg-1119476 Java OT Board Fri, 31 Aug 2018 13:07:29 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119475#msg-1119475 Ok, assuming you really meant "revenue" and not "profit". http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119475#msg-1119475
Edit: Presumably, you meant the revenue lost was due to investors bailing out due to increased taxes, as the article implies:
"In a letter to Vladimir Putin, aide Andrey Belousov named 14 companies that could pay more. The resulting investor exodus saw $3.1 billion wiped off the fortunes of their affluent bosses, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index."

Q: How do you invest money lost from a company's stock value, unless you somehow have control over the investors themselves?

P.S. that Bloomberg article actually lends weight to daurwyn's statement: "And that's partly because, I suspect, that it's not viewed as a reliable partner because of the political interference."

P.P.S. I never said anything about Exxon nor referred to anything about it anywhere, so I'm going to ignore that feint.]]> Jib OT Board Fri, 31 Aug 2018 12:52:46 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119473#msg-1119473 I don't mind using petrol or gas to further political goals http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119473#msg-1119473
Thing is - we keep our word, because we consider reputation to be a valuable resource as well. There's a popular saying in Russia - "The deal is more valuable than the money", I wonder if there's a U.S. analogue.

If we've signed a contract and then you behave like an asshole - we'll finish the contract and then when we start to renegotiate the terms we'll be like "ok, now for you being an asshole, the price is twice as high". It will happen, but it will happen ONLY after the initial obligations are fulfilled. And you won't find the contradictory evidence.


What you guys accuse us of doing though is in fact typical for your own behavior. Like Exxon was forcibly pulled (against their will) by the US government out of the Russian Arctic project - [www.usatoday.com] . Exactly the behavior you accuse us of doing. That's pretty funny to read.]]> Kstatida OT Board Fri, 31 Aug 2018 12:14:59 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119472#msg-1119472 I actually agree with your perspective. http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119472#msg-1119472
Obviously Kstatida is biased in favor of Russia, just as you're obviously biased against it. You can't expect him to make the same assumptions that you're making (ie, those countries get cheap petrol, other countries get cut off, therefore Russia is using petroleum to further political goals) without providing real evidence rather than just anecdotes. Evidence means proof. Without that, you're just arguing your guess at why something is happening and comparing it to his guess.]]> Java OT Board Fri, 31 Aug 2018 11:59:28 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119471#msg-1119471 Re: I posted evidence, you are obfuscating. http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119471#msg-1119471
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physics
Do you honestly believe that your RUSSIA is going to answer to an international court of law? Obviously you don't even believe yourself when you try to bring up a stockholm court controlling Russian Commerce. BULLSHIT.

Is there evidence of Russian Government meddling in Commerce? YES. You BULLSHIT again, my friend.

Georgia, Ukraine, and Baltic states have had their petrol cut off by Russian Government. = Petro-stick.

Armenia, Belarus, Ukraine (Pre 2005), Abkhazia, North Ossetia, and Trans-Dniestria got rewarded with cheap petrol by Russian Government. = Petro-carrot.


None of this is about data on Russian companies breaking their contracted obligations. It's emotions.

Also, we give cheap price to whomever we want. It's our gas, if you don't want it - don't sign the contract.]]> Kstatida OT Board Fri, 31 Aug 2018 11:51:01 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119470#msg-1119470 Haha, this is where I exit conversation. You are bullshitting, my friend. -nt- http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119470#msg-1119470 physics OT Board Fri, 31 Aug 2018 11:40:39 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119469#msg-1119469 I posted evidence, you are obfuscating. http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119469#msg-1119469
Is there evidence of Russian Government meddling in Commerce? YES. You BULLSHIT again, my friend.

Georgia, Ukraine, and Baltic states have had their petrol cut off by Russian Government. = Petro-stick.

Armenia, Belarus, Ukraine (Pre 2005), Abkhazia, North Ossetia, and Trans-Dniestria got rewarded with cheap petrol by Russian Government. = Petro-carrot.]]> physics OT Board Fri, 31 Aug 2018 11:34:29 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119468#msg-1119468 I posted evidence, you are obfuscating. http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119468#msg-1119468
Is there evidence of Russian Government meddling in Commerce? YES. You BULLSHIT again, my friend.

Georgia, Ukraine, and Baltic states have had their petrol cut off by Russian Government. = Petro-stick.

Armenia, Belarus, Ukraine (Pre 2005), Abkhazia, North Ossetia, and Trans-Dniestria got rewarded with cheap petrol by Russian Government. = Petro-carrot.]]> physics OT Board Fri, 31 Aug 2018 11:34:12 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119467#msg-1119467 Re: My point is you are 100% wrong and it's obvious. http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119467#msg-1119467
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physics
Those links I posted are examples of your government changing contracts on a whim.

Well, no, you have posted no evidence of that. Otherwise Stockholm arbitration court (where Gazprom export contracts disputes are settled) would've have said so at least once. But surprisingly, it didn't.

International trade is not something you Americans believe it to be, it's not about "I do what I want to and fuck you", it's about contracted obligations and maintaining trust. So by saying that Russians change their contracts on a whim, you project your own behavior model (of the most recent examples, see the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action issue).]]> Kstatida OT Board Fri, 31 Aug 2018 11:17:55 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119466#msg-1119466 My point is you are 100% wrong and it's obvious. http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119466#msg-1119466

You are a scheister, obfuscator of reality who is incredibly difficult to argue against. The Republicans in America have definitely learned how to spew nonsense and sideline reality from Russia. I was watching a youtube video of KellyAnne Conways systematic "bullshitting" and "derailing" techniques and they're straight up the same strategies I see you use in argument. These are intellectually infuriating, but part of me has to respect the strategy. If I lived in Russia my whole life, and plain as day reality in front of my own eyes was constantly being replaced by state propoganda, and cultural pressure I would be exactly like you. This makes me value being an American, and having free speech, and having the right to give my president the middle finger. My whole psyche bristles when Trumpsters, Russians, religious folks attempt to distort my reality.


Fascinating stuff. This is why I like talking to you Kstat. Your argumentative tactics are strong. Your loyalty is strong. You are an infuriating study of mine.]]> physics OT Board Fri, 31 Aug 2018 11:00:33 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119464#msg-1119464 I see your gave a lot of links to examples of Russian companies breaking their contracted obligations http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119464#msg-1119464 Kstatida OT Board Fri, 31 Aug 2018 08:10:56 -0400 http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119463#msg-1119463 Tell me how Exxon's revenue on Sakhalin-1 helps you as the U.S. citizen http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?8,1119091,1119463#msg-1119463
P.S. I don't "think" what revenue means, I "know" what it means, being professional on the matter.]]> Kstatida OT Board Fri, 31 Aug 2018 08:09:13 -0400