September 23, 2017 02:12PM
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Registered: 15 years ago
Posts: 14,787
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Quote
sleepy
Because we don't live in the natural order anymore. Not since we came up with laws and a legal system in society, and a government. And violence in and of itself isn't wrong nor is it evil. It's intent behind it.
How does that mark us as separate from the natural order? I have a hard time understanding why people see humanity as separate/above nature. This argument seems to be saying "because we are organized," but our organization comes from our natural evolution. Much like the brand of organization ants follow, or chimpanzees, or any other herd/pack animal. I don't see how the fact that we write our rules down instead of "instinctively" following them separates us. It's a different flavor of the same thing as far as I can tell. This would probably be the much more interesting conversation btw, we agree too much on the other stuff.
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sleepy
Equality of treatment is simply that when you see or interact with a person, your actions towards them are not based upon skin color. Everyone has inherent bias, yes, and we always let is affect our daily decisions. But I think it's important to not let it make you treat a person a certain way, because I do not think skin color differentiates people.
What if there is evidence/statistics that show skin color CAN tell you some safe assumptions to make about certain people. Of course, I want to apply this to all attributes, since that's part of the discussion. That is to say, skin color, sexual preference, whatever. I don't have those stats/evidence, but would you dismiss them for the sake of maintaining your current view?
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sleepy
You say this because you live in America,
Absolutely not. I say this specifically because I have been to the places that are forced to fight and/or do violence for survival. Much of the world, in terms of land mass, still has an appreciation for the sanctity of death, I think. I believe that appreciation is gone in the "developed" nations and so people tend towards viewing violence/death as evil/bad.
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sleepy
Rohingya, I believe your belief would be very much different.
Why would being from a place more acquainted to violence make me less accepting of violence as an unavoidable consequence of being part of the natural order?
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sleepy
You can only argue this position because it is your country that is not the one being attacked. Which goes back to what makes you different from a person who lives in Afghanistan? Fundamentally, nothing.
You take that back. I can argue any position at any time. You don't tell me what to do.
Lots of things make me different from a person who lives in Afghanistan. How in the world can you say these two things at the same time? "Matrik only believes X because Murica" and "Fundamentally, Matrik isn't different than opium slaves."
Another point to be made would be better served waiting for the conversation about natural order.
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sleepy
A quick way to an extinct nation is to allow countries to freely go to war.
Yes. The ones that weren't as good go extinct. That's the natural order.
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sleepy
And do I live and pay taxes in a country that does it? Yes. But I also believe in a democratic process and of voicing dissent to such atrocities. Would refusing to pay taxes and going to jail make an impact? No.
So you admit to being ok with violence and subjugation of people different than you. Welcome to the club. It's a terrible thing to realize, but it's a necessary realization.
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sleepy
Though this also goes into another entire line of argument, since it's not nations so much as international corporations that are the ones who are really screwing over people, including people in first-world countries. But we won't go there.
Yeah. Gets harder and harder to draw the line between the two these days too.
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sleepy
Does that mean you shouldn't be allowed to do it? No, you have every right to. Will I vote to try and make it illegal? No. But that doesn't mean I'll approve of it.
I skipped that big paragraph about gay rights. I don't wanna. Anyway, for the most part, I think you are in what will ultimately be considered the right position. By that I mean, your people will kill the other people and prove it :D
Just needs some polishing with harsh realities. I do appreciate the sound reasoning and can definitely tell you picked the right profession. FWIW, people like you are what fundamentally makes Americans better than Afghans. Not the war mongers.
Sportsmanship killed CF
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