I'm not a history expert, but no war is started over slavery

May 02, 2017 07:26AM
As I see it:

United States were basically two conglomerates of countries, one industrial, one agricultural. The agricultural one was at the same time "globalist" in that it was benefitting from the overseas trade the most and was pushing that way. The industrial wanted to have the southern resources for its industry, but you can't compete against export profits quite well when cotton and tobacco are selling so well in Europe.

There you have the number one reason for the conflict - distribution of resources. Now distribution of resources is definitely a good reason for a war, and hundreds of wars were started that way.


Then you have the economic expansion issue. Both economic systems inherently to capitalism sought to expand into the ex-Mexico and other territories. Each sought to bar the other side from expanding. I'd argue that financially (due to export profits) the South had an upper hand, but administratively North was more powerful. Therefore you get the "no slavery in new lands" idea by Republicans. Notice how they didn't go with "abolish slavery", but went with "no new slavery states" instead (the earlier would be a direct declaration of war). They didn't give a fuck about slavery, they wanted to limit the expansion of their economic rivals. With slavery being the only politically viable option of working force for the South (other option being mechanization with the help of the industrial North that would result in decrease in profits short-mid-term), banning slavery in new lands was basically a ban on their economic expansion using the current model (no slaves => mechanization), which would result in greater distribution of wealth to the industrial North.

There you have the number two reason for the conflict - distribution of wealth. Now distribution of wealth is definitely a good reason for a war, and hundreds of wars were started that way.


Bearing that in mind, it is obvious that slavery abolishment was a move that shifted the power balance greatly to the North, resulting in North economic model being spread throughout the country and the industrial and financial groups of the North getting all of the power in United States with Southern financial groups shrinking and losing their political influence.

There you have the number three reason for the conflict - distribution of power. Now distribution of power is definitely a good reason for a war, and hundreds of wars were started that way.


One may argue that these three reasons are effectively one and the same reason. I can agree with that, effectively they are. But they have nothing to do with slavery, human rights and shit. Lincoln was genius in that he turned a pure economic issue into the human rights issue, but thinking that abolishing slavery came first is ridiculous.

Like it was noted, "noone else fought a war over slavery", because human rights don't matter shit when it comes to reasons for war. Wars are much more pragmatic.

It is important to note though that obviously a "war to abolish slavery" became part of the national American myth, which is totally fine. And if you're dipshit lowlife (like Sam) for whom national myths are created, you take the thing with religious fervor. It's also funny that if you look even at Wikipedia, U.S. and other countries state different causes for the war. Maybe because other countries don't give a shit about U.S. national myths.


I don't really give a f- about Trump, but when he says that it could've been done w/o a war, he is right. The only way to end it w/o war was for the South to accept industrial revolution and protectionism pushed by Republicans. But the Democratic Southern financial groups were way too greedy with the global financial agenda and having all those international money flowing in.

Funnily reminds you of the current situation, don't you think? Like someone needs to accept the reality of the historical processes or I say we have chances to see the 2nd round of the debates.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2017 07:31AM by Kstatida.
Subject Author Posted

So Rhyaldrin and Trump supporters, how ya like your boy right now? Wants to chill with dictators, wants to repeal the 1st Amendment, can't remember when Andrew Jackson died, doesn't know why the Civil War happened.

Sam May 02, 2017 03:17AM

Comfy and happy. (n/t)

Matrik May 02, 2017 06:34AM

for what it's worth. Re: civil war

PaulO May 02, 2017 03:37AM

Also, this is the same president who dropped bombs on Afghanistan and Syria in the last 45 days. Really trying to settle things without a war, totally. NT

Sam May 02, 2017 05:43AM

GTFOH with that shit.

Sam May 02, 2017 05:38AM

Relax, I wasn't calling you a Berkeley liberal

PaulO May 02, 2017 06:39AM

You are asking a different question than Trump.

Balrahd May 02, 2017 10:27PM

Did you read the article?

PaulO May 03, 2017 03:01AM

Nullification crisis anyone?

Kstatida May 03, 2017 03:09AM

What right wing extremists? (n/t)

Rhyaldrin May 02, 2017 10:59PM

He lost me there, too. (n/t)

Jib May 02, 2017 11:01PM

I'm not a history expert, but no war is started over slavery

Kstatida May 02, 2017 07:26AM

Would you say that Southern states seceded because of fear of losing slavery?

Jib May 02, 2017 08:42AM

Well

Kstatida May 02, 2017 08:58AM

So you are saying that the fear of losing slavery had no impact on any of the Southern states secessions?

Jib May 02, 2017 09:21AM

You ask wrong questions

Kstatida May 02, 2017 09:44AM

I'm not asking the questions to come to a specific conclusion, I'm asking them to have a discussion.

Jib May 02, 2017 11:04AM

And that is easy

Kstatida May 02, 2017 11:15AM

Is it propaganda if its true?

Jib May 02, 2017 12:44PM

What I'm saying is that if the driving force behind south was not slavery but chickenbutts

Kstatida May 02, 2017 09:38PM

Okay, okay, I get it.

Jib May 02, 2017 11:17PM

You're obviously biased and putting words into my mouth

Kstatida May 02, 2017 11:42PM

You're focusing on the wrong things, just to argue now. Okay, let me try this again, removing bias.

Jib May 03, 2017 08:13AM

No

Kstatida May 03, 2017 08:21AM

We're splitting hairs here. It's okay, I get what you're saying.

Jib May 03, 2017 09:01AM

Agreed

Kstatida May 03, 2017 09:05AM

Slaves were the WMDs of their day (n/t)

wishore May 03, 2017 08:00AM

Standing for? (n/t)

Kstatida May 03, 2017 08:06AM

I believe WMD stands for

wishore May 03, 2017 08:10AM

Wholesale Method of Distraction. (n/t)

The Faithful of Nazmorghul(VIP) May 26, 2017 04:52PM

Absolutely.

PaulO May 02, 2017 08:57AM

Holy Christ, you'd fit right in with the Nazi's and White Nationalists in America. Bravo.

Sam May 02, 2017 07:38AM

You have repeated my statement with your counterarguments, Sam

Kstatida May 02, 2017 07:41AM

You're stupidity has won out, I just can't do it anymore. Just like Sultan on .info, you've driven me from Dio's. Enjoy the throne. NT

Sam May 02, 2017 07:42AM

What the Fuck is wrong with you?

physics May 02, 2017 07:25AM

Wow... maybe that isn't an unfair stereotype of the left being angry and intolerant (n/t)

TJHuron May 02, 2017 04:53PM

This post is why I voted for Trump. God save the King. (n/t)

Matrik May 02, 2017 12:19PM

To be honest, me too.

Jib May 02, 2017 12:45PM

We boys Jib, we boys. (n/t)

Matrik May 02, 2017 12:51PM

Nah, you are what's wrong because you think you know me but you don't.

PaulO May 02, 2017 07:47AM

The problem with you, dude,

Kstatida May 02, 2017 07:50AM

Re: The problem with you, dude, is that you like to think????

physics May 02, 2017 08:09AM

Re: The problem with you, dude, is that you like to think????

PaulO May 02, 2017 08:31AM

Huge issue for us to, if only your mother had tried harder. (n/t)

wishore May 03, 2017 08:09AM

Re: The problem with you, dude, is that you like to think????

Kstatida May 02, 2017 08:11AM

Re: The problem with you, dude, is that you like to think????

physics May 02, 2017 08:19AM

Re: The problem with you, dude, is that you like to think????

Kstatida May 02, 2017 08:21AM

Calmer than you are, dude. (n/t)

Jib May 02, 2017 07:29AM

Much better post.

Sam May 02, 2017 06:52AM

FWIW I think American Civil War had little to do with slavery

Kstatida May 02, 2017 05:30AM

Actual professor of American history discusses this issue with sources:

vortexmagus May 22, 2017 07:24AM

It was all so Abe Lincoln could stop the vampires (n/t)

TJHuron May 02, 2017 06:54PM

I don't see no vampires around, way to go Abe. (n/t)

jhyrbian May 02, 2017 07:01PM

Odin said he'd get rid of the Frost Giants. Though he did get most of them, some remain.

Frosty May 02, 2017 07:10PM

Re: FWIW I think American Civil War had little to do with slavery

Isildur(VIP) May 02, 2017 07:09AM

Despite any notion to the contrary

zannon May 02, 2017 07:38AM

You contradict yourself

Kstatida May 02, 2017 07:43AM

Some things are done for moral reasons, not that russians understand right and wrong. (n/t)

NbM(VIP) May 02, 2017 08:13AM

Define right

Kstatida May 02, 2017 08:25AM

Right and wrong is contextual and subjective

zannon May 02, 2017 09:36AM

Great points but : Slavery was considered good and right for Thousands of years

wishore May 03, 2017 09:22AM

Exactly, my good man

Kstatida May 02, 2017 10:50AM

They were willing to let them keep slavery, just not allowing new states to have it. And thus, the Southern states feared losing their majority/power, so they seceded before we could fully abolish it. NT

Sam May 02, 2017 07:40AM

And U.S. - Spain war was started because Maine exploded

Kstatida May 02, 2017 07:29AM

Preserve the Union! (n/t)

PaulO May 02, 2017 07:09AM

LOL. Russians committ genocide on their own people. NT

Sam May 02, 2017 05:38AM

I'm done talking to you long ago

Kstatida May 02, 2017 05:40AM

Like, seriously. You posted that the Civil War wasn't about slavery. LOL. NT

Sam May 02, 2017 05:42AM

I was talking to PaulO

Kstatida May 02, 2017 06:08AM

And you're fucking wrong, you genocidal cuck. Shouldn't you be making sure your wife isn't giving out handjobs for rubles? NT

Sam May 02, 2017 06:15AM

Go fuck yourself

Kstatida May 02, 2017 06:16AM

So sad. You literally have nothing intelligent to say, ever.

Sam May 02, 2017 06:20AM

I've got nothing to say to you, fucking idiot. Not now, not ever.

Kstatida May 02, 2017 06:28AM

Alright, I tried to warn you. NT

Sam May 02, 2017 06:42AM

Yet you still keep posting incredibly stupid shit, over and over and over again. How's it feel to be living in a country where they committ genocide on their own people? NT

Sam May 02, 2017 05:41AM



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