Posted by Jaldean on August 9, 2000 at 23:20:23:
After reading the note Ingvar posted, I thought it was damn good, and tried to strike up a conversation with him. I think it turned into a really good debate.
[ 41] Ingvar: A travelling man.
Thu Apr 20 00:40:46 2000
To: all
A travelling man walked along a mountain road not long ago.
He was quite far from the maddening crowds of society, and
began to fear that the afternoon light would not last much
longer, yet he had seen no inn since the morning. Others
from his society, though they did not travel much, had told
him that they knew the darkness was not safe, and that he
should seek shelter from it. Indeed, he realized that he
had not seen so much as one other soul as he walked along
the path he chose for himself, and he was not sure what to
make of the feeling of being utterly alone, with not a guide
in sight to point the way. Until this day, others had
always been about to look after him, and tell him where to
walk. But he knew now that his destination lay ahead, and
to walk along the way that he came from would accomplish
nothing, for he already saw what was there.
In time, he came upon a simple shack. But his eye barely
strayed to it, for he was drawn to the wondrous stone
carvings that were on all sides. As he stood and surveyed
the scene, he knew that another must be near, for how could
such complex, varied forms spring from nature alone? Surely,
the travelling man thought, a designer of sorts must live in
such a place.
Then, he was aware that another stood beside him. As it was
now late, the sun was low in the sky, and the one who was near
stood in darkness. The travelling man heard a woman's voice,
which seemed to resonate from all sides, and said "You wish
to know how I craft such beautiful things from stone, young
traveler?"
The travelling man, stunned by this development, barely managed
to communicate his agreement.
The voice continued, "One may occasionally stumble onto a stone
which naturally has a form worth appreciating, but most are
merely raw material. My calling, as a sculptor, is not to see
the raw material, but rather what it could become in my hands."
The travelling man nodded, and added "Surely there is more to
it, for there are many who hang a sculptor's sign above their
door, but none have your skill."
"Many who would try this trade fail because they do the opposite
of what I do, travelling man," the voice continued, "Many others
have a sculpture in mind, then grab the first piece of raw material
they can find, and try to push it to the form they want. I merely
look upon the stone, focus until I can clearly see its unique
essence, and decide what form it wants for itself."
A sense of confidence flowed over the travelling man with these
words, as he realized that he too could do such, now that the
technique had been revealed to his eyes. Hoping to be guided
further, he persisted: "How does that vision become reality? Mere
thoughts cannot change a stone."
[ 42] Ingvar: A travelling man, continued.
Thu Apr 20 00:46:18 2000
To: all
In a lower tone, the voice came forth again. This time, the figure
in the shadows seemed much closer, though he was not sure who had
moved towards whom. Ringing in his mind, as if from nowhere and
everywhere at once, the voice continued: "Once I have seen what
the raw material desires, I simply destroy what does not please me.
Be it hammer and chisel, or a slow abrasion, I carve away what is
not part of what should be. In time, all that stands is the pure
form of the sculpture, no longer obscured by the worthless parts,
crumbled at my feet."
"I create, as I destroy."
As the meaning of the words pierced the travelling man, he sensed
that the clearing around him grew dark, yet somehow he saw with
perfect clarity. As he swept his gaze about, he saw he was utterly
alone: no shadowy figure, and no sculptures, only the path ahead
that he would take.
(Signed, in careful, studied script)
Ingvar Vittfaren, Initiate of the Scarab
You tell Ingvar 'Good tale.'
Ingvar tells you 'Thank you, Jaldean. More of a recollection of sorts.'
You tell Ingvar 'Very elloquent.'
Ingvar tells you 'I do not write often, but from time to time, the urge calls.'
Ingvar tells you 'It pleases me that you thought well of it.'
You tell Ingvar 'An interesting point, indeed.'
You tell Ingvar 'I can't say I've known many of your... organization... that held
the power of words. It makes for an interesting study, young elf.'
Ingvar tells you 'When I sought Initiation, an Elder asked me to find things that
spoke of my soul. The first thing I brought was a set of stonecutter's tools.'
Ingvar tells you 'From there, I suppose... I have had that seed within me since I
was young.'
You tell Ingvar 'A biography of sorts then.'
Ingvar tells you 'Indeed. I have travelled far in my day.'
You tell Ingvar 'Ahh, travelling is the wine of life. There is much to be seen an
d done in the world. Where have you travelled?'
Ingvar tells you 'I did not speak of walking about, actually.'
Ingvar tells you 'But I have come from... there to here, some would say.'
You tell Ingvar 'There are many forms of travel.'
You tell Ingvar 'What made the journey from there to here worthwhile?'
Ingvar tells you 'Total, utter freedom.'
You tell Ingvar 'Ah, clarity itself as a goal... many seek something with more sub
stance.'
Ingvar tells you 'The lust for pleasure, and its fulfillment.'
You tell Ingvar 'I see... where do you find these things?'
Ingvar tells you 'The beauty of my faith is that I learned that all are not found,
just... self-given.'
Ingvar tells you 'All came to me the moment I allowed myself.'
Ingvar tells you 'This must seem quite... unusual to one who spends a great deal o
f time debating ways to confine the actions of others.'
You tell Ingvar 'Confine the actions of others, you say? There are to be no rules
then?'
Ingvar tells you 'Among the Pure, the rules are simply not necessary.'
Ingvar tells you 'Indeed, the society you seek to cradle... generates the very typ
es you would hope to stop.'
You tell Ingvar 'The bringing of structure and order to things benifits all. Many
who do not think before their actions are what cause the strife you speak of.'
Ingvar tells you 'If it were not for those that teach the Sleeping the falsehood t
hat material things are worth sacrificing one's freedom for... theft would not exi
st.'
Ingvar tells you 'Another example... I know that to deprive another of Sight is Pr
ofane indeed, and therefore, I confine my violence to those who would perpetuate t
he fog.'
Ingvar tells you 'Without those, I rarely feel any sense in violence.'
Ingvar tells you 'Of course, hoping for a society of only the enlightened is a bit
... lofty.'
Ingvar tells you 'Part of the burden of Knowing is the unfortunate, but accurate,
realization that most among the masses are quite useless.'
You tell Ingvar 'Come now, in a perfect society there would be no need for you or m
e or anyone, for that matter. Since things are not perfect, a structure is requ
ired.'
You tell Ingvar 'Do you not follow a set of structured precepts?'
Ingvar tells you 'This structure seeks to preserve the society as it stands.'
Ingvar tells you 'Structured precepts? Hardly... each Initiate is free to do as t
hey wish.'
You tell Ingvar 'No precepts at all then?'
Ingvar tells you 'Only to listen to what calls from within, and allow the Will to
flourish. Second nature by now, truly.'
You tell Ingvar 'Is that not a precept?'
help scarab
SCARAB
THE CULT OF THE RUBY SCARAB
The dogma of the Cult is founded on the truth that all men, at
their core, are the same: every man casts the same shadow; every man
has the same dark desires as any other. Mastery of one's World
begins with discovery of one's Self. Morality, compassion, empathy,
and other chains that the hypocrites of the world seek to use to
enslave the Spirit of their fellow man must be broken so that the
heart may be free to enact its Will. Only then can mortal man reach
his full potential and live in Truth.
Followers of the Cult must understand:
- The followers of "Light" are blinded by the fog of illusion that
descends upon the weak, who use morality like blinders to keep
from seeing themselves. We must burn away that fog to keep the
profane from enslaving the world.
- Let your Will be done. The weak of Mind and Spirit must be cut
from the body of mankind lest they spread like a cancer, stifling
the natural evolution of the enlightened. Discover your Will and
follow it without fear.
- No desire of the Will is too base; our primal lusts are a gift.
But the unexamined life, one that kills or plunders merely out of
habit or social pressure is lost again in the fog of illusion.
Those that seek entrance into the Cult should seek one of the Cult's
mortal Elders: the Voice of the Scarab, the Eye, or the Flame.
You tell Ingvar 'The only rule, is that there is no rules... is still a rule.'
Ingvar tells you 'It is logic, Jaldean. Once one realizes that all of society bin
dings are but phantoms... one needs no such rules.'
You tell Ingvar 'Wouldn't logic dictate that when things aren't they way they shou
ld be, then steps should be taken to mke it so?'
Ingvar tells you 'Of course, but one hardly need srules to accomplish that. Insti
nct is a truer guide.'
You tell Ingvar 'Ah, that is rather naive. The vast majoity of people do require
a structure to guide them.'
Ingvar tells you 'The vast majority of people are fools, Jaldean.'
You tell Ingvar 'Your solution may be to cull them all out until only the "enlight
ened" are left.'
You tell Ingvar 'But that doesn't mean that is the best solution'
Ingvar tells you 'Not those who can be taught.'
Ingvar tells you 'Of course, I would prefer to convince them to choose to open the
ir eyes. Violence is... only needed in other situations.'
Ingvar tells you 'But I cannot force anyone to do anything. I can point the path,
but they must decide to walk it.'
You tell Ingvar 'So what is to be done with those that will not follow the path yo
u point to, if you can not force them?'
Ingvar tells you 'I have found that... more direct handling... can do one of two t
hings to those who choose not to free themselves.'
Ingvar tells you 'Either jolt them from their sleep, as they see the strength and
purpose of those who are Pure, or...'
Ingvar tells you 'Grind their bones to dust, so they may no longer plaue the minds
of others with their false beliefs.'
Ingvar tells you 'Plague, even.'
Ingvar tells you 'Those who would not free their Will, even when given every chanc
e, do not deserve more than that.'
You tell Ingvar 'Ah, there we vary then. Instead of eradicating them, the laws ar
e there to set the example of order they should follow.'
Ingvar tells you 'To lead them about by their noses, such is worse than the finali
ty of Destruction.'
You tell Ingvar 'Order is the true nature of things.'
You tell Ingvar 'They are led nowhere. If they like, they can continue to break t
he set laws. Then they deal with the set punishments, then things start over.'
You tell Ingvar 'So even in their lawless actions, they are still taught of order.
Ingvar tells you 'Teaching them to submit is hardly a lesson.'
You tell Ingvar 'Ofcourse it is a lesson, although it does not nesecarily involve
submitting.'
Ingvar tells you 'Worse, many believe what they are told, for they are too weak to
simply see for themselves. Such laws are the reason many are taught that their l
ot is to serve others in your cities.'
You tell Ingvar 'Many may be too weak to do other things. The laws give them an o
rderly system to use as a guide, from which they can learn.'
Ingvar tells you 'There is a fundamental bridge to cross. One can teach another t
o swim by holding their hand and guiding them, or just tossing them into the water.'
Ingvar tells you 'Holding their hand may teach them to swim, but it also teaches t
hem to depend on others, and remain weak.'
Ingvar tells you 'Tossing them into the water teaches them their own worth, should
they live.'
You tell Ingvar 'Hm. the laws are not synonomyous with holding their hands. It i
s more synonomyous with saying "Here is the water, this is the surface. If you go
underneath it this will happen, if you do this then this will happen."'
You tell Ingvar 'Now go swimming'
You tell Ingvar 'They've learned the basic order of things, and the concequences o
f their actions.'
Ingvar tells you 'You can throw a pup into water, and it will swim, Jaldean. Thos
e who cannot... they cannot because of their own fears and confused thoughts.'
You tell Ingvar 'Now if they want to try and drown, they can.'
You tell Ingvar 'So some swim, some drown. Why not have their mother show them al
l what happens when they swim, and have all of them live?'
Ingvar tells you 'Suffering the fools who constantly need others if a large part o
f the burden I speak of.'
You tell Ingvar 'There is no suffering fools... again, you show them what happens
when they do one thing or another, then let them do as they wish.'
You tell Ingvar 'If they kill themselves or whatnot, then they do.'
Ingvar tells you 'I see no problem with this, so long as you feel so compulsion to
tell them how to swim.'
Ingvar tells you 'There are situations where one chooses to be helpful, such as gu
iding one who seeks Sight.'
Ingvar tells you 'But it is a waste to say that all must be shown the proper way t
o live.'
Ingvar tells you 'Especially since all are born with the capacity to do so.'
You tell Ingvar 'Well, certainly a different way to look at things. You understan
d the reason behind bringing order to our society?'
Ingvar tells you 'I understand that many would prefer to be told what to do, rathe
r than simply know it for themselves.'
Ingvar tells you 'I just to not think that one should coddle such.'
You tell Ingvar 'Ah, you skipped over our conversation. The laws simply set an or
derly example, in the context of our society. It hardly coddles anyone.'
Ingvar tells you 'The Laws set an unworthy example. They protect the Profane, eve
n as they speak.'
You tell Ingvar 'No, the laws a mortal representation of order, which all things g
o by.'
Ingvar tells you 'They allow for those who perform truly unworthy acts to hide beh
ind others.'
You tell Ingvar 'Without order, nothing exists.'
You tell Ingvar 'Everything done orderly, is done proerply.'
<4999hp 4999m 4999mv> reply Properly too.
You tell Ingvar 'Properly too.'
Ingvar tells you 'Oh? I will give an example.'
Ingvar tells you 'You have heard of the game rock-shears-parchment, yes?'
You tell Ingvar 'Indeed.'
Ingvar tells you 'If you were to play me now, what would your best strategy be?'
You tell Ingvar 'To pick one of the three and see what happens.'
Ingvar tells you 'Could you pick in an orderly fashion?'
You tell Ingvar 'If I wished. Or pick the first ones that come to mind.'
Ingvar tells you 'Assume we plan to play a lot.'
Ingvar tells you 'Also assume you are trying to win.'
You tell Ingvar 'Then I would play something different in a different order each t
ime.'
Ingvar tells you 'Would not any semblance of order defeat you, against an opponent
who was alert enough?'
You tell Ingvar 'Certainly, if he could tell from the order what I would pick next.'
Ingvar tells you 'Exactly. The best way to play, is to abandon all order. Yet yo
u told me all things are best done in an orderly fashion.'
You tell Ingvar 'Now you are looking just at the surface.'
Ingvar tells you 'the story that started all of this.... did I follow any order th
ere?'
You tell Ingvar 'The entire game is orderly.'
You tell Ingvar 'Every last thing about it.'
Ingvar tells you 'Yet the best way to play it is to abandon all order. I rather e
njoy paradoxes.'
You tell Ingvar 'Every possible way the game can progress has a possible outcome.'
You tell Ingvar 'You learn these outcomes, and pick what you play accordingly.'
You tell Ingvar 'There is no such thing as abandoning order.'
You tell Ingvar 'I pick the order of my choices in such a way that my opponent can
not guess the next one.'
You tell Ingvar 'But regardless I've still ordered them.'
Ingvar tells you 'That strategy assumes that you are more clever than your opponen
t, Jaldean.'
You tell Ingvar 'Only a fool thinks order can be abandoned in any sense.'
Ingvar tells you 'Perhaps you confuse order and logic.'
You tell Ingvar 'Even in the analogy you gave, you are still following the orderly
rules of the game.'
You tell Ingvar 'If you wanted to break order on that level, then you'd stand up a
nd club your opponent with a mace.'
Ingvar tells you 'Of course, such is the paradox.'
You tell Ingvar 'The two are closely related, see. Logic is just a form of order.'
You tell Ingvar 'The fact that we exist is a form of order.'
Ingvar tells you 'I can be quite logical, and shatter any of your Laws, Jaldean.'
You tell Ingvar 'Yes, the laws are not the same thing as order however.'
Ingvar tells you 'Indeed, I often have, though I am caught less.'
You tell Ingvar 'The laws are a simple representation of order.'
You tell Ingvar 'If you break a law, you are being unlawful, but not disorderly.'
Ingvar tells you 'Explain.'
You tell Ingvar 'If you run into a city and murder someone, you've broken the laws
. There you go. Then you get flagged, and you've gone through the orderly cycle.'
You tell Ingvar 'Or perhaps you avoid the flag...'
Ingvar tells you 'I see all parties acting as they wish. Such is order, now?'
You tell Ingvar 'Then its like the simple game we spoke of, and you've won a round
. But you're still aware of the concequences.'
You tell Ingvar 'Mm, how do you mean.'
Ingvar tells you 'I make my decisions as if your laws were not there.'
Ingvar tells you 'I recognize that your little minions might become angered by thi
s, but fortunately my training makes this rather difficult to detect.'
Ingvar tells you 'So by ignoring your laws, I am somehow being orderly?'
You tell Ingvar 'How are you being disorderly?'
Ingvar tells you 'If you define order to include all forms of decision-making, tha
n I am orderly. But most people would not.'
You tell Ingvar 'People can choose to follow the laws or to not, they still see th
e same orderly concequences. Or they see my minions become angry, as you put it.'
Ingvar tells you 'You define order more broadly than most, Jaldean.'
You tell Ingvar 'How do you define order?'
Ingvar tells you 'I would call a person orderly, if they choose some sort of rules
to limit their own behavior.'
Ingvar tells you 'I see no need for such rules, myself.'
Ingvar tells you 'And I do not take well to those who would seek to place their ru
les upon me.'
You tell Ingvar 'You may see no need to follow a rule, but you still can not choos
e to be disorderly.'
You tell Ingvar 'The fact that you exist is order in and of itself.'
Ingvar tells you 'True.'
You tell Ingvar 'True chaos is far beyond mortal comprehension.'
Ingvar tells you 'Again, there are many who think otherwise, Jaldean.'
You tell Ingvar 'As you are very well aware, many are fools also.'
Ingvar tells you 'Ironically, the two sets do not overlap so well.'
You tell Ingvar 'So explain chaos to me then, if that is what you are disagreeing
with.'
You tell Ingvar 'Describe what true chaos would be.'
Ingvar tells you 'What society calls chaos, as it applies to a person, is that per
son being utterly free to act as they please, guided by no hand.'
You tell Ingvar 'I didn't ask what society calls chaos, I asked what chaos was.'
You tell Ingvar 'If you wanted to be purely chaotic, how would you go about it?'
You tell Ingvar 'Walk differently every day? Breathe differently every time? Cha
nge your voice?'
You tell Ingvar 'Even if you could do it, which you can't, you would still be sett
ing an orderly pattern by doing things differently every time.'
Ingvar tells you 'Again, I would simply do what pleases me, and satisfies my insti
ncts.'
You tell Ingvar 'Chaos IS a paradox. It cannot exist.'
You tell Ingvar 'You do not think instincts are orderly then?'
Ingvar tells you 'My instincts point me to and fro, quite often.'
You tell Ingvar 'Do our instincts not tell us to eat and sustain ourselves? To re
produce? To breathe?'
Ingvar tells you 'Indeed.'
You tell Ingvar 'When you take that hammer and chissle and shape a stone with it,
does the same thing not happen when you repeat an action?'
You tell Ingvar 'Hit the chissle, stone changes.'
You tell Ingvar 'Many things we take for granted are just simple examples of our o
rderly nature.'
Ingvar tells you 'Changes in different ways, though one tries to hit the same each
time.'
You tell Ingvar 'Oh, differently certainly. But there is an extremely orderly pro
cess which decides that. The force and angle of your blow, the shape and strength
of the stone, and the movement of every particle that makes up the stone.'
Ingvar tells you 'Now you speak of moving stone particles?'
Ingvar tells you 'All the stone I have seen just sits, Jaldean.'
You tell Ingvar 'Speak of whatever you wish, there is order within.'
Ingvar tells you 'you have made your point about order, though you define it in su
ch a way that one cannot escape it.'
Ingvar tells you 'I could convince you that all things are made of "stuff" by simi
lar tactics.'
You tell Ingvar 'Escape it? When one can not even comprehend the alternative, let
alone reach it, how do you go about escaping something?'
Ingvar tells you 'One can define chaos as low order, relative to other possibiliti
es.'
You tell Ingvar 'How would you do that?'
Ingvar tells you 'I could divide a group of people, based on how important they se
e laws and such.'
Ingvar tells you 'I could call one group "Orderly", because they choose the burden
of laws for themselves.'
Ingvar tells you 'I could call the other group "Disorderly", because they have bet
ter things to do than be constrained by phantom guidelines.'
You tell Ingvar 'I could call you purple if I wanted, that doesn't make you purple.'
Ingvar tells you 'True, but you define order differently than most, Jaldean.'
You tell Ingvar 'Ah, perhaps because I'm old.'
Ingvar tells you 'Perhaps. I do not say there is no wisdom to your points on orde
r. It is merely your insistence that because there is order, there must be Law.'
You tell Ingvar 'Oh. That isn't the point I meant to make.'
You tell Ingvar 'Order exists with or without the laws.'
You tell Ingvar 'The are simply a way we have found to bring the representation of
order onto a level of every day life.'
Ingvar tells you 'Perhaps a bad way, no?'
You tell Ingvar 'A small example perhaps, a fairly simple one for Arbiter applican
ts.'
Ingvar tells you 'Based on how Galadon looks on an average day, I'd say it is quit
e a bad way.'
You tell Ingvar 'A farmer has a field ready to be planted.'
You tell Ingvar 'He takes a handful of seeds, and throws them in the air, then exp
ects a crop to grow.'
You tell Ingvar 'Ofcourse a crop does grow, but not nearly as good a crop as would
have grown if he had dug evenly spaced rows, to a certain depth, then planted the
seeds an even distance apart.'
You tell Ingvar 'It is little things like this that people can either benifit from
or not.'
You tell Ingvar 'We as Arbiters believe that bringing something like these laws in
to society, brings that semblance of order, from which people can benifit.'
You tell Ingvar 'This is where, obviously, there are many different views.'
Ingvar tells you 'The Laws of Thera seem more like a farmer who threw his seeds in
to his attic, actually. To constrain the enlightened remains Profane, order or no
t.'
You tell Ingvar 'Well, the laws are an imperfect solution, certainly. Weather the
y help or not is a completley seperate conversation.'
You tell Ingvar 'Which this old gnome doesn't have the time to debate at the momen
t.'
Ingvar tells you 'True, and I grow weary as well.'
Ingvar tells you 'Another day, seeker. It is good to find others who have somethi
ng to say for themselves.'
Ingvar tells you 'Even if they talk about Arbiters, I suppose.'
You tell Ingvar 'A stimulating conversation to be sure. Good travells Ingvar, per
haps another day.'