Posted by Shokai(IMM) on February 9, 2000 at 16:25:55:
In Reply to: Re: Yes posted by An Old Arbiter on February 9, 2000 at 12:49:10:
> No, the point was to hold him up as an example of how things should be done. It's double-edged. It said Justin was great, and inbetween the lines said 'and the current arbiter immortals aren't'...That's unfair, and damned harsh. I've said everything else about that point in other posts. The current quality of leadership seems to be something along the lines of "The beatings will continue, until morale improves" kind of mentality, the sort of thing that killed Knights. Two things, 1) The Arbiter leadership should be harsh...they're not a fluffy happy cabal. They're an organization of order, if you can't stand rigid order...don't play an Arbiter. The manner of the protest. I could've just posted 'BITE ME!' in response to this, how would you have reacted? Poorly I'd imagine, that's about how constructive the immortals react when our criticism comes in the form of a slap to the face, whether you see it as such or not *shrug*, however I assure you, criticism is fine, even appriciated...telling us we suck, or that we're the worst immortal around, or that we should just quit to make people happy...isn't. > Why can't we have a sence of mutual respect? Why does it have to be this "us vrs. them" mentality? It's amazing how people respond if they're treated like human beings. Not all players are immature cheaters just like not all Imms are cheaters with WIZI out to ruin your day. You'd be amazed, immortals don't think that about the whole of the playerbase, we're fully aware that it's mostly a few squeaky wheels clogging the machine...the problem, and what causes you to feel the 'us v them' mentality is that those are the ones we deal with almost all day...it gets tiresome. > > No, but defending a fellow immortal for no other reason than he is an immortal is. Just like there are good players and bad players on CF there are also good immortals and bad immortals. Really? I think that defending an immortal that has proven themselves just because they are an immortal is perfectly fine. Most immortals that are in Asgaard over level 53 has proven themselves (no slight to 53- they've proven themselves as well), and deserve to be where they are. If you have contention with them deserving to be there, tough. As for 'bad immortals' there are ways to deal with them in the game, namely email to the Imps. > In many instances, players wine. I admit this. But the consistency of the opinions about Arbiter over the past few months and my own experience make me wonder if something isn't rotten in the state of Denmark..... I personally have played a good handful of Arbiters...even hero'd one, and even though the Arbiter immortals shot down one of my character descions...and kinda made my character feel a bit foolish, I had no problem with it. As for the complaints about Arbiters in general, or complaints about Arbiter immortals...as I stated further down on the forum, if you don't like the way it's being done...roll one up, immort and try to change it...or as Cyradia put it kindly 'shut the hell up'.
2) That's not what killed Knights, I'm argueably one of the nicer immortals around, and was even more of a softie back with Knights...if you want to point to an immortal flaw that killed Knights it was that we were too lenient, and let too many people slip. As well as people missing the point of Knights completely towards the end.
> Just because someone is a leader doesn't give them immunity from critiscism or a license to treat their followers badly. If you treat someone poorly, it really shouldn't suprise you that people get angry and resentful. People will only bend over and smile so many times before they get sick of it. How is it insulting to protest poor treatment?
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