Posted by Rome on April 18, 2000 at 19:48:38:
In Reply to: Re: posted by Unnamed on April 18, 2000 at 19:23:23:
> > I agree, it is possible for this class to be hideously overpowered... possible.
>
> With work, of course. So does any other class. This class moreso than others, though.
No, most classes don't have much potential within themselves. Just how powerful can a warrior really get?... or a thief? Once you learn everything you can learn, you've hit the ceiling. (Ap's and necro's are really the only ones that can keep growing)
> Well yah, the point is to make it difficult for a starting Crusader, filtering out all the crappy ones and leaving a few good players. Not to overpower the class further, but without those skills anyone can basically escape from a Crusader. It makes the 150% hp thing rather useless, since any smart opponent would flee after the Crusader hits negative health, what with the lack of any lagging skills.
Yes, it does make it worthless against a knowledgable player.. then again, lots of skills are worthless against someone who knows what they're doing. Good thing there arn't a lot of people like that on CF. As for filtering out the bad players, and leaving only the good ones to get the good powers, isn't that the idea of empowerment, cabal interviews, becoming, tattoo's.. and so on?
>
> > Going down the list, if he falls below 100% hp's and you flee, he falls over dead.
>
> This makes the skill useless, since all smart opponents would flee knowing the restraint on the skill.
Yes, that does make it of less value.. then again, you still have to remember to flee, and can't sit there spamming... and hope there isn't a healer there to bring him back to life. There's a lot of situations this could save your life, but not a lot of them where it would be obsurd.
>
> So you're basically setting the same guidelines for a Paladin, good Shaman.. Basically eradicate all evil.
Yes, this class was intended to take the place of paladins.
> Alright then, you have a class with warrior talents and a hefty damage reduction.
Weak warrior talents, and hefty damage reduction against evil. Yes, that's the idea (again, no different than the paladins we have now, they just go about it different).
>
> What happens if the opponent doesn't have shields/aura/sanc? (OUCH!).
You were speaking about soulstrike here.. no, if they don't have shields/aura/or sanc, it doesn't do anything at all. Just a normal hit.
>And provided that the Crusador has a high Avenging Angel skill, you said yourself the mob would be wicked. A Conjurer's tracking angel wicked or a Conjurer's no-escape nightgaunt wicked. Would it be easy to kill, a hard hitter, or just an annoyance, perhaps a way to occupy the opponent so the Crusader can retrieve his corpse.
I'd leave that up to the imm's to balance out. I'm sure it wouldn't be a big deal.
> I'd think that Ragers would want Crusaders in the Cabal. So what happens if you have a Berserker Crusader? :)
They would have to seriously consider if they want someone that has angels following them around to hang out in the village. I'd guess they wouldn't be let in, but who knows.
> Seems a bit unfair. You're saying that the Crusader is going to die soon, so with the skill he has 48 hours to kill every evil in-range player.
That's one way of looking at it. The other is that as a reward for 700+ hrs of good play in an empowered class, you get 48 hrs of play time to do the things you could never do before. It's really not that hard to hide out for a what comes to 1 rl hour from some guy who's blazin'. After all, everyone quits out to avoid people anyway. I was thinking of crusaders using this more to go on one last solo trip into hell or something.
>This isn't fair for the evil players, while they haven't worked as hard as the Crusader, they still wind up facing an almost unkillable (feel free to correct me on that) foe. It just makes it unfair for the evil character.
Bah, tell 'em to go hide behind the nearest lich. That should slow 'em down.
>
> Maybe they should have some lagging skill, otherwise opponents could just flee and run. Maybe give them a weakened version of summon.. ? And the zombies wouldn't do much damage to the Crusador, he could probably wipe out a portion of Zorsazul's army, flee, run to a different area, heal up fast with their skill, and return to wipe out more of Zorsazul's army. But this depends on many factors, such as whether Zorsazul would remake his army or not, leave the area, etc.
On the one hand, you're arguing against them being over powered, then suggesting adding a lagging skill? I think their potential is balanced by the lack of ability to pin someone down and bash 'em to death. They'd take a lot of skill to kill with, especially early on. That's why I think they should get some extra fancy stuff. They're supposed to be very hard to play.
Anyway, I appreciate your comments. I probably sound snappier than I am trying to be.
...Rome...