Posted by Unnamed on April 18, 2000 at 19:23:23:
In Reply to: Far better flame than Swist's... allow me to retort. posted by Rome on April 18, 2000 at 18:30:08:
> I agree, it is possible for this class to be hideously overpowered... possible.
With work, of course. So does any other class. This class moreso than others, though.
> My introduction was to inform you that this class could not be power ranked. The only way to get all the skills would be to kill over 200 people, stay alive for over 700 game hours, and die at least 80 times (26 2/3 con). That's a tall order to accomplish. How many of your characters have done it?
I realize it's a hefty price tag. I don't really count my chars' kills and deaths, but like any other class, with dedication and patience it can be accomplished. And let's not delve into my sad, sad, sad list of characters.
> Further, look at the starting skills for this class. They are basically fighters without the following:
>
> Dodge
> Dual wield
> Trip
> Bash
> Any spec's at all
> Missing half the weapon skills.
> Retreat, dash, lash, or anything else useful.
Well yah, the point is to make it difficult for a starting Crusader, filtering out all the crappy ones and leaving a few good players. Not to overpower the class further, but without those skills anyone can basically escape from a Crusader. It makes the 150% hp thing rather useless, since any smart opponent would flee after the Crusader hits negative health, what with the lack of any lagging skills.
> Going down the list, if he falls below 100% hp's and you flee, he falls over dead.
This makes the skill useless, since all smart opponents would flee knowing the restraint on the skill.
> Chosen does not grant any reduced damage, the most they ever get is -50% damage from evil. Not even as good as a sanc.
So you're basically setting the same guidelines for a Paladin, good Shaman.. Basically eradicate all evil.
> Max +hit/dam is about +20 each.. not too much when you look at what others get (can you say AP's?)
Alright then, you have a class with warrior talents and a hefty damage reduction.
> Sort of, sort of, and sort of. An ability to blast through shields/aura/sanc is not the same as deathblow (especially against mobs), spellbane against evil spells.. sort of, and sending an angry mob after the killer can hardly guarantee his death.. who's to say how tough it is?
What happens if the opponent doesn't have shields/aura/sanc? (OUCH!). And provided that the Crusador has a high Avenging Angel skill, you said yourself the mob would be wicked. A Conjurer's tracking angel wicked or a Conjurer's no-escape nightgaunt wicked. Would it be easy to kill, a hard hitter, or just an annoyance, perhaps a way to occupy the opponent so the Crusader can retrieve his corpse, come back at 50% health with the martyr stat increase, and no ghost status so he can finish off the opponent.
> They wouldn't have half the offensive power of a axe-spec beserker.
I'd think that Ragers would want Crusaders in the Cabal. So what happens if you have a Berserker Crusader? :)
> The thing is.. .they would almost HAVE to have 4 con to get it in the first place. Just a coup-de-gras type of skill.. you know you're going to be con-dead soon, might as well go out with a bang.
Seems a bit unfair. You're saying that the Crusader is going to die soon, so with the skill he has 48 hours to kill every evil in-range player. This isn't fair for the evil players, while they haven't worked as hard as the Crusader, they still wind up facing an almost unkillable (feel free to correct me on that) foe. It just makes it unfair for the evil character.
> Multi-killing evils I could see happening, but why would the crusaders be doing it any more than the liches? It is after all an empowerment class, and should be closely watched by their imm.. more so than a lich you would think. As far as trying to die.. why would you do that? You don't gain any power by dying, except for your next death. Would you not want to save your con so that you could live long enough to get the purity skills? (remember, you need over 700 hrs to get there.. thats a LONG time)
Here you have a judgement call to be made by the empowering Imm, whether he'd allow the Crusader to multikill an evil or not. And some Crusaders might want to die early, increasing the skills that go up with dying. Maybe they want to create a strong Avenging at a young level, die to some hideously strong evil player, have the Angel kill him, and retrieve his equipment.. (maybe).
> First, they don't get any lagging skills at ALL. Second, Zorsazul would waste most any crusader that came into his range (he may have a tougher than normal time spelling them up, but his zombies would still cut them down).
Maybe they should have some lagging skill, otherwise opponents could just flee and run. Maybe give them a weakened version of summon.. ? And the zombies wouldn't do much damage to the Crusador, he could probably wipe out a portion of Zorsazul's army, flee, run to a different area, heal up fast with their skill, and return to wipe out more of Zorsazul's army. But this depends on many factors, such as whether Zorsazul would remake his army or not, leave the area, etc.
> By the time the crusader got all the purity and resilience chain finished, he would be well on his way out.. yes. That was the point. To keep the class interesting until the very end. And when the end does finally come.. you get to go out with a bang that would echo across thera for some time... if you worked very hard for it that is.
It's probably just me but I don't enjoy the fact that I need to work my ass off for 700+ hours only having a few chances of being a really powerful character.
Hell, I'm tired of thinking, it's late and I'm too lazy to analyze and re-read the posts. I'm not trying to flame you, I'm trying to provide some cons to the class so it could balance out. I'd be thrilled to play this class, even if I realize I'd only gain my true power after hard work, it seems like a real challenge.