Posted by Rome on April 18, 2000 at 18:30:08:
In Reply to: Re: The newest class, Crusaders posted by Unnamed on April 18, 2000 at 18:11:33:
> While it looks as if you have put a lot of work into this, it seems extremely overpowered.
I agree, it is possible for this class to be hideously overpowered... possible.
>Your introduction was misleading, these skills will make not only Invokers but a group of a master invoker, lich, and conjurer look like fodder.
My introduction was to inform you that this class could not be power ranked. The only way to get all the skills would be to kill over 200 people, stay alive for over 700 game hours, and die at least 80 times (26 2/3 con). That's a tall order to accomplish. How many of your characters have done it?
Further, look at the starting skills for this class. They are basically fighters without the following:
Dodge
Dual wield
Trip
Bash
Any spec's at all
Missing half the weapon skills.
Retreat, dash, lash, or anything else useful.
> Your suggestions show an unkillable foe who has 150% of his actual hp, insane +hit/+dam (And I'm not talking about the stat affects of equipment as well, just the skills), two extra forms of Sanctuary (chosen, aura of sanctity - god help anyone if the Crusader gets his hands on sanctuary, protect good/evil), and improved parrying and landing a hit.
Going down the list, if he falls below 100% hp's and you flee, he falls over dead.
Chosen does not grant any reduced damage, the most they ever get is -50% damage from evil. Not even as good as a sanc.
They have no improved parrying (just a skill to replace the missing dodge.. and it would not be as good as it restricts what they can wear, and could be destroyed)
Max +hit/dam is about +20 each.. not too much when you look at what others get (can you say AP's?)
>You're giving him deathblow, spellbane, a wicked charge set (attacking during sleep), and you're basically guaranteeing the death of whoever kills the Crusader (Avenging Angel).
Sort of, sort of, and sort of. An ability to blast through shields/aura/sanc is not the same as deathblow (especially against mobs), spellbane against evil spells.. sort of, and sending an angry mob after the killer can hardly guarantee his death.. who's to say how tough it is?
> On the other hand, according to your restraints, said Crusader would most likely have extremely low con and therefore low hp, so perhaps his crazy offensive power matches his low hp.
They wouldn't have half the offensive power of a axe-spec beserker.
>I like the 'Blaze' idea, but I can't imagine anyone wanting to suicide their character like that after going through SO much, unless maybe he was down 4 con.
The thing is.. .they would almost HAVE to have 4 con to get it in the first place. Just a coup-de-gras type of skill.. you know you're going to be con-dead soon, might as well go out with a bang.
>
> Also, I assume that due to the level of difficulty required to achieve the strongest of the skills, there would only be a handful of dedicated Crusaders. However you would not have valient warriors of good, you would have people running around naked asking to be killed, starting fights for no apparent reason, multikilling evils in the "name of good," etc.
Multi-killing evils I could see happening, but why would the crusaders be doing it any more than the liches? It is after all an empowerment class, and should be closely watched by their imm.. more so than a lich you would think. As far as trying to die.. why would you do that? You don't gain any power by dying, except for your next death. Would you not want to save your con so that you could live long enough to get the purity skills? (remember, you need over 700 hrs to get there.. thats a LONG time)
>
> Sure Zorsazul is a tough Lich. And sure he worked his ass off to get to where he is. And you see how many people complain about it. Imagine twenty Zorsazul's roled into one, who don't need servitors, and don't require any real combat skills aside from spelling up before a fight and spamming 'bash'.
First, they don't get any lagging skills at ALL. Second, Zorsazul would waste most any crusader that came into his range (he may have a tougher than normal time spelling them up, but his zombies would still cut them down).
>And finally, when every skill (aside from Blaze) and the Crusader is at the peak of his game, he only has a few precious lives (I didn't do the math, maybe your goal is to leave him with one life) left with which to enjoy the fruits of his labor.
By the time the crusader got all the purity and resilience chain finished, he would be well on his way out.. yes. That was the point. To keep the class interesting until the very end. And when the end does finally come.. you get to go out with a bang that would echo across thera for some time... if you worked very hard for it that is.
>
> I'm sure you realized the points I'm making when you came up with the idea, because at face value this looks like an extremely overpowered class that does not seem to be worth the effort. (Invokers don't need to die to perfect their skills,well not the good ones, and Necromancers are powerful enough without having to risk their lives to ascend to Lichdom).
No one says they have to try to get any of the resilience skills. What good are they? The only reason they are there is to help out the crusaders who suck.. for the most part anyway. That, and to reward the players who stick with their crusader through the tough times.
...Rome...