Posted by Shokai(IMM) on May 2, 2000 at 21:36:14:
In Reply to: Game Balance, hello?? (flame, rant, truth) posted by Pissed arby on May 2, 2000 at 20:04:54:
> This is getting stupid.
>
> Battle is so fucking overpowered, it’s no longer even fun to even bother playing in another cabal.
>
Hmm...I find it hard to believe that there is no other cabal that has appeal because Battle happens to be on an upswing.
> Yes, the pendulum swings and shit, but this is just idiotic how the Imms have let battle run so rampant over all the other cabals.
"the Imms have let..." Hrm. No, I can honestly say that the game and cabals (for the most part) live and thrive without us doing much...sure the Battle immortals could close the village for a few...but if they did I can almost garuntee you in a month we'd see posts that looked like this:
WTF?!?! Immortals please!: Pissed Rager 10:32:14 6/2/2000
Don't believe me? Go scan the forum and see how many posts there are about each of the other cabals (excepting Dawn, Scarab and Troupe) being overpowered there are. The players steer the course of CF at times more than we conspiratorial immortals do.
>
> In truth, the cabal was tough to play, for a while since it was so hard to rank and you got hosed by area spells so damn easily. To correct this, you had the defender and scout added plus bloodthirst was improved. This made it fairer.
>
*nod* it was indeed made more fair. (unless you ask a master at the time, they'll tell you how unfair it was)
> But what is just SICK is fucking battle bards. Some other arbiter guy made a point about how the HELL are guys who have such blatant spell-like effects allowed in Battle? Yeah, right, “fire and ice” isn’t a fucking spell. Plus they have an area effect sleep spell?? WTF? Not only is ranking easier for battle, it’s easier than most cabals have now! Wow, now you can have your cake and eat it too with healing spell…er songs and songs that make you hard do hit, AND the defender skills that most bards have.
>
Quite simply, bards are not mages....spell like effects, sure. Spells? No. Spells are directed or area. Bard songs hit everything in range...want to avoid a battle bard? Try hanging out with a nasty mob that the battle bard may upset with his singing. Or maybe if you're an assassin, or someone else with a way to silence they...make them shut-up, can't sing without a voice can they? Every class v class fight can (in almost every case) go either way, granted in most cases they're likely to go one way as opposed to the other...but if you look across the board, at hero levels most classes are fairly balanced. Are Battle Bards tough? Yes. Are they the *toughest* class/cabal in Thera? Dunno...ask around, see how many varied responses you get. In the hands of a skilled player, anything is deadly.
> In the past, you gave up healing and helpful magic when you joined battle. Now, you don’t give up shit.
>
Oh yes you do. You think invoker shields, flying potions, hastes, and in combat heals, as well as all the nifty casting equipment out there is nothing to give up? Think again.
> I’ve seen other arbs fight battle bards, trying to hit their vulns by using bash for the arials, tigerclaw and stuff, but these NEVER CONNECT. Thank you resist! With resist all they do now is just flee, sing sleep, and loot away. These guys will NEVER loose their wanted flags, not because all arbies are idiots, but because their class is overpowered.
>
Then perhaps might I suggest using alternative stratagies? Maybe a small ounce of tactics will help. Arbiters have some pretty potent powers all thier own, and I'm sure if you sit down and think about it, you may come up with something that'll work. Then again...nothing is fool proof....it it was, what would be the point of the game?
> IF BATTLE BARDS AREN’T OVER-POWERED, THEN WHY THE HELL WERE THEY UN-INDUCTED FOR THE RITES??? SOMEONE, PLEASE ANSWER ME THAT!!
>
As I'm not a immortal of Battle, and don't really pay attention to what happens in the Rites...I'm not qualified to answer it, I have some hunches, but I'm not going to post half-cocked ideas under an (IMM) flag.
> Listen, CF is a fun really fun game and I KNOW you won’t win all the time, but this is bullshit how dominant one cabal has gotten.
>
> It’s not fun anymore to bother with others and if the Imms don’t try to balance this out soon, they’re going to see a chunk of their playerbase go away like it did when Empire was so over-powered about a year ago.
>
Call me optimistic, but I doubt it. Want to beat the ragers? Convince people to start playing opposing cabals.
> I just want to have fun. You need the threat of loosing so victory is more enjoyable, but this is utter bullshit.
>
Relax, take a deep breath...it's frustrating, believe me I know...I suck at pking and often find my mortals being chewed on by 'duckies' with the current deathful class/cabal/race combo...it happens, Battle isn't going to stay on top forever.
> Yeah, all the IMMs are gonna flame me for being an ass, but come on guys. Please. Just try to make the game a little more fun for everyone. You had the wisdom to tone-down Empire, please take a honest look at Battle.
>
Two things...this isn't a flame, and unless I'm terribly mistaken...Empire toned itself down. Granted the immortal assisted anath's helped...but for the most part the playerbase shifted away from Empire. Just as before much longer people will shuffle away from Battle.
> I don't want to win every battle, but it's not fun to loose all of them.
>
I feel your pain. Really I do, ask some people who remember me as a mortal about the times I'd die 2 or 3 times trying to defend the cabal in a raid....or be trying to interview someone and get pwk'd or assassinated, or other similar nastiness. There's even a vaugely fist-sized hole in the wall of my old apartment located strangely near where my computer used to sit. ( I don't suggest this course of anger-management as it tends to hurt the hand, and unless you want to learn how to use plaster, and white paint...it's not effiecient). Sadly frustration is part of the way the cookie crumbles from time to time. It'll get better...it always has.
> Pissed arby