Posted by Zepachu on August 21, 2000 at 09:33:46:
In Reply to: Bringing Balance to the Force posted by Imbrogno(VIP) on August 21, 2000 at 07:55:42:
> There's something to be said about being the underdog, but CF takes "underdogism" to extremes beyond the bounds of rational choice. There is no logging in and seeing that you're outgunned 2:1, a reasonably fair ratio, it's more often that you log in and find yourself outgunned 4:1, as is the case now if you're a non-battlerager(Imperial, Arbiter, Master, etc.). I agree with this part of your post. In the 6 years of my playing experience this has just about always been the case. Can't sum it up any better than you did. It's easy to play now as a Rager, but especially hard for a Master and an Imperial Arcane. I think the only Imperials that have a chance now are Healers and Blades. Not for supremacy, but for survival. > Personally I think it's pretty lame that everybody participates in this mass exodus every time a new leader of battle is chosen. It wasn't 2 weeks ago that everybody was playing an Imperial or an Arbiter. I remember telling Quintius that I thought he needed about 10 more arbiters and I was being sarcastic. I never participate in the mass-exodus syndrome... Not to be defiant, not to stand out, just because I don't. For literally the first 5 years of my playing all my serious chars (35+) were chaotic. I've had more than a dozen Barons over the years, and only had one uninducted on a whim by Pico (and that was because I always ate whole chickens...) (Inducted again 20 seconds later, I think because of my attitude of "not caring that I was uninducted" but that's beside the point.) A few months ago, when Empire was at one of their low points, I decided to give it a shot. Before this time I was emphatically against the Empire and what they stood for ... but I figured I'd try something new. It's fun to play something you know how to play (i.e. Baron) but its even more fun trying to play something you never have before. My first Imperial was a Blade... I won't disclose the name, but I made him quickly to see about the induction process and all. It took me 25 hours to get inducted and level 25, drow warrior. An hour or so later I delete delete'd and began to make my serious (pun?) Imperial, Zepachu. I didn't like the way I saw Blades act... all subservient and all, which is the reason why Zepachu acted the way he did. In many ways, acting like I did as a Baron. Anyway... that's just to show that some people actually do play something because they want to, and don't participate in the mass-exodus. Too bad that's the minority, as you pointed out. > People talk about the pendulum's swing, and I agree that that should be a part of Theran life, but why not keep the pendulum from crashing through the sides of the clock? I think we need to moderate the damn thing, because inevitably a greater balance makes the game more fun for the entire playerbase, not just the duckies that walk in line to the winning team. > My proposal then is induction limits. You take the total number of players(obviously an imm has to do this), subtract 50 and then divvy up the remainder between the cabals. The 50 is to leave room for the uncaballeds and to make sure that our work is not negated by setting the limits too high. By my estimate 50 should be roughly 1/4 to 1/3 of the total CF playerbase which I figure is somewhere between 150 and 200. > You take the remaining amount and divvy it up between cabals like this(working with 150 as total number of players) > Arbiter:15 This is the part I disagree with... There shouldn't be a system put in place to moderate cabals. If those number values turn out to be 90 ragers, 10 imperials, 5 masters, 2 sylvan,... it doesn't matter. Sure, it would NOT be fun to play the one's in the minority, but whenever I'm the underdog I always seem to find nice hiding spots. It's a learning experience. There are advantages and disadvantages to being the "cabal to be" or the "underdog." What about the level 30-35 ragers now, are they lame because they're Ragers? What if it took them the last month or so to get there? ...what if it took them 3 days? Right now I totally agree with you that people are running over to the Ragers because they're on an upswing, something that very much surprises me... what with Havilahd becoming Emperor recently and all, Imperials should be flooding the WHO list. I do think that the Leaders should have some sort of rational thinking about them... We will occasionally see a scroll from the Masters saying that they aren't accepting anymore Conjurers (as of late) or whatever... Why is that? I seem to think it's because they see the numbers to be out of balance and to keep a good reputation as the institution they are, it needs to be moderated, or it could be within their role to be destined to lead a force of only a certain amount... there are a lot of variables. If the Empire was on a huge upswing and had dozens of Imperials on at one point, should they be moderated? No, if anything congratulated. TSame with the Village. They're a bunch of bloodthirsty Therans, and if they have numbers it totally suits their role in the world of Carrion Fields. Barsimmon can induct like a madman if he wants, because that would help the goal of the cabal. But what if Barsimmon saw some aspect of having huge numbers to be dishonorable? It all depends on the players. One player can make a HUGE difference in CF. Also, a flaw in your plan... from a coding sense. Think about it this way, someone goes to get inducted to Battle, the Leader says that there are not enough slots available. Said person makes a few characters... Oh, I dunno, ranks them to eight or so... Boosts up the quota a bit. This system has a lot of room for abuse. There could be code put in to only count players above a certain rank, but what rank would be reasonable? Considering Masters can apply at 10-20, and Imperials can be inducted at 15? How easy would it be to screw with the quota... *shrug* And who's to say that a level 6 player is not more or less serious about playing than someone who's made it to 25? > These numbers are set 1)with strength of powers 2)mindset of the cabal and 3)usual alliances in mind. > Empire gets the most because their powers are arguably the weakest when not thought of as a unit, but their strength is based on their numbers and they don't usually align with anybody for an extended period of time, therefore they get 30 members. > Master powers are one of the better sets, and they're generally non-aggressive which means their impact on the rest of uncaballed playerbase is minimal, and they don't usually align with any other cabal unless the situation demands it(overpopulation of ragers), therefore they get 25. > Battle powers are also one of the better sets, generally affect the uncaballed players in a very real way(ragers will kill anything that moves simply because they can), and don't usually align with anybody unless the leaders are insane(see Minalcar and Empire), therefore(as much as it pains me), they get 25 as well. > Arbiter, Dawn, Sylvan, and Entropy each get 15. I will concede to the fact that the game is often less fun when it's overrun by Arbiters so they get 15 which ideally would get split into the three thirds, 5 for good, 5 for neutral, and 5 for evil, but that would likely never happen. I debated on whether or not to include Dawn at all, but decided that I would since they do tend to get involved in cabal wars more than they should. Sylvan only gets 15 1)because they're powers are just too good to unleash en masse upon the land and 2)their mindset is one that lends itself to smaller numbers. Entropy got 15 only because I wanted to keep them on par with arbiters, though I realize they hardly ever have that many regular players at any given time(I maintained the list of barons during my stint as Imbrogno and 15 was usually above the number of "active" barons. > Scarab got 10 so as not to waste too much on them. It's a cool cabal but I don't think their number has reached 10 since the Matraein, Tikich, etc. time period, and maybe not even then. If I were to impose a system I actually do (pretty much) agree with your number choices, though. It seems like you put a lot of thought into that... for that you deserve credit. > What this does is moderate the swing of the pendulum so we don't have a period like now where we're overrun by Battleragers and nobody can stop them. I can't imagine this truly being any fun since there's no competition(I know I was bored after the battleragers were forced into hiding and nobody wanted to be a criminal with 10 arbiters constantly around). It also enforces the idea that cabals are for the better roleplayers amongst us and should be seen as a privelege, not a right. Moreover, it will add further intrigue to the idea of alliances since battle might be forced to come to terms with sylvan or scarab or whoever in order to deal with the greater number of Empire. This is where I think your argument seems a bit weak. You say that cabals are for the better roleplayers... I don't agree. Some cabals are. Entropy for one... namely because the "better" roleplayers can handle the randomness with being uninducted for whatever reason and just take it in stride. The cabal that I think doesn't require much roleplaying is the Village... and even the Empire. (I won't comment on the others.) It doesn't take much skill. We see it in the logs all the time, Villagers or Imperials accused of being "narrowminded"... it's well within the role of the cabal that they would appear to be narrowminded to others. The good roleplayers will also (mostly) not jump on the bandwagon and run over to the new popular cabal. The one's we need to look out for are those Human players that rank to 30-35 and then just sit there... not because they choose it, but because they can't advance any further. A lot of newer players (this could even be 2-3 year players) cannot Hero if their life depended on it. You know it just like the rest of us, stress increases exponentially as you gain levels from 40+... some people cannot handle it and delete. This is actually a big majority of players. > Anybody who inducts would have access to the limit and their current number. The induct ability will no longer work when the limit is reached. Leaders would be expected to keep track of their active members and anybody who doesn't contribute to the cause(this means they have to log on fairly regularly for at least an hour at a stretch, none of this "I'll log on for 5 minutes just to keep a char in the cabal" bullshit) gets uninducted to free up the space for somebody who will. A likely side-effect of this would be that a player could only have 1 caballed character at a time which is how it should be. I personally think that people should play one CHARACTER at a time. It's a better experience, and prevents the use of the oher character to get revenge and stuff. (i.e. You really want to make a mage, but you know you'll get hurt... so you make a warrior and keep him in stride with your mage for protection or at the very least revenge.) That is lame, granted, but it is done... I'm sure of it. But... what about this scenario. Khayr (the current War Master) seeing a few warrior oaths that are on 3-5 hours a day... smart fighters, etc, whatever. Currently, there is no room. There are a few current Blades that are pretty good players themselves, but are on only an hour or so a day... totally acceptable. What choice should he make? Kick out the current more-skilled players and induct the one's that are around more a day, so as to give more of a presence? or, keep the current ones and just tell the oaths that there is no room? My point exactly: it's a matter of personal preference, as to how the current Leader wants to present themselves to the rest of Thera. Should we consider Barsimmon a coward simply because CF is swarming with Ragers now and accuse him of being insecure of his cabal's abilities, so he's making up for it in numbers? Idiot Rager + Idiot Rager + Idiot Rager = Dead Really Skilled Imperial. Idiot Imperial + Idiot Imperial + Idiot Imperial = Dead Really Skilled Rager.
> Battle:25
> Dawn:15
> Empire:30
> Entropy:15
> Master:25
> Scarab:10
> Sylvan:15
> Troupe:not included