Posted by The First Apostle on December 14, 2000 at 10:34:00:
In Reply to: Okay. posted by Macheath(VIP) on December 14, 2000 at 10:08:12:
> You still haven't calmed down. And thus... another perhaps too-scalding reply!
Wow, I feel so honored.
Well I just wanted to say thank you. I didn't understand the system before. Nepenthe has been
Why? Because your thoughts/point is not original. Do the forum search, hero. The first thing out of
Well I didn't need Gareth and another permagroup member... and while I do consider what happend to Saerin my most memorable
> believe not only that you were the founder of every idea surrounding the Dawn cabal, not just that each and every facet of Dawn's existence is your intellectual property, but that you somehow have the right to assume that your word is gold on this topic and ends all discussion
Actually, I don't. It's hilarious that *you* haven't made *one* original point since this thread started. You haven't had *one*
> and that nothing has ever changed from your original, all-encompassing vision for the cabal.
Where do I say that exactly. More assumptions Mac?
> Get a life.
Thanks Mac. I know you have my best interest at heart.
> Why do you post as "The First Apostle?" Oh, right, because no one would know you if you posted as Saerin.
*laughs* You have me *all* figured out. I just thought it would be a fun handle.
> Jeez, I don't know. Nobody knows. Because as the "Beacon of Hope" in Thera, you don't have an item to lose. And that's the way it should be, I agree. But I also believe that Dawn should just keep the hell away from cabal raiding as a whole, just to stay on the safe side. In fact, I think they should stay away from fighting as much as possible.
Any former Knights of Thera players care to comment?
> "The Servants of the Dawn draw their power from the faith and hope of the Light...if you wish to try to raid and steal it, go right ahead." That's what Selric has to say on the subject. And it's a perfectly viable explanation. Except it's unfair, unless we just keep Dawn focused on its goal of helping others and furthering the light, blah blah blah. How would you feel if Battle lost area spellbane and resist, but Thror came out and said, "Oh, by the way, all ragers now get their powers from the internal rage they feel.. yeah, that's it." Before you leap all over it, no I'm not suggesting that the remainder of Battle's powers are in some way balanced with Dawn's. I'm merely giving an example so ridiculous that you'll hopefully see where I'm coming from - cabals with powers should either not be involved in other cabals' politics in any way, or they should have some way to be inhibited by these other cabals. Dawn is neither uninvolved nor inhibitable at the moment, and their powers, however meek, are an unfair advantage without one of those two limitations.
I half way agree with you. Why is the solution to give them an item. Isn't this a matter for Selric to hash out? If Dawnies are running off every chance
> Uncaballed people who raid aren't in a cabal. They don't have a certain cabal-enforced roleplay to adhere to, they don't have powers they gain from being a member of the cabal, they don't have built in friends and ranking partners. And please, stop saying, "Their powers aren't worth it." We all know. My point isn't that Dawn is out of balance power-wise. It's that Dawn has been granted this special boon because of the nature of the cabal, and this nature is something they should stick with.
I mentioned this because people keep harping on the fact they have powers. Quite frankly, the only advantage they have to
Why? When a cabal loses an item, they don't loose their cabal channel.
> >Golden aura, succor, altruism??
Mac, I don't disagree with you. Why does this behavior warrant giving them an item.
> >These are formidable weapons in a
They aren't an overwhelming advantage.
> >How about we dumb down the entire cabal system..
Each cabal with an item are given powers to quite literally destroy their oppostion (pk powers).
1. Give Dawn pk powers.. and give them an item to protect.
How fair would it be to give Dawn an item with the powers they have? My point is giving them an item
Do Troupe members ever raid? Not terribly often.
I agree. ;)
> > And you are explaining this to me for what reason?
>
> Because you don't seem to get it.
so very vague when talking about the cabal system. I thought I was jumping to conclusions for
the last six years. Thank you Macheath. *tear drips from my right eye*
> Why is that always everyone's first assumption? I ALWAYS have license to talk out of my ass, as does everyone else. So we get beat down for doing it occasionally; that's fine. I'm not talking out of my ass here, though.
everyone's mouth when it comes to the Dawn is.. they aren't supposed to get involved in cabal wars.
Where does it say that on their help file.. you goof.
> Ahhh, right, I forgot. You, being a leftover knight that got thrust into the limelight for your 15 minutes of fame,
CF experience, it wouldn't be anywhere near the top of my life experiences. Considering your 15 minutes of fame amounts to
a VIP flag on a public form.. well that says a lot about you doesn't it.
original thought. The only perspective I bring to the table is the experience I had with Dawn. I've never claimed to be all-knowing.
Of course, you stated for a fact that Dawn isn't supposed to get involved in cabal wars.. Where does that come from?
they get to raid another cabal instead of being Servants.. then the apostles should step in.. and if not them.. then Selric. Let them clarify it. I just
don't see why the solution *has* to be to give them a cabal item.
the uncaballed is a cabal channel. Everything else you suggest is available to anyone playing. Now.. to the cabal roleplay..
I think I pointed out my thoughts on that just above this.
> > How is it unfair exactly? What.. it's unfair because they can communicate accross a cabal
> > channel while a group like the Maran can't? Yes.
> >These are worth having an item? If you want my opinion, no, they aren't. But then as I've said,
> >they should focus on helping others - not killing others.
Isn't it the duty of the Apostles to make sure these guys are doing what they are
supposed to.. and ultimately Selric's?
> >pk situation? They're an advantage.
> >take away *all* of the pk powers thus we can take away all of the items. How fun would that be?
> >Not very. What's your point?
Dawn and Troupe do not have such powers. If you want to level the playing field, you can either
2. Take away cabal given pk powers, and let everyone beat themselves senseless.
isn't a solution.
> >Certainly not as often as Dawn seems to. They should have an item. That storytelling skill
> >is way overpowered. Heh.
>
> > The idea being they come from a different source.. a power that allows them to continue their
> > mission even during Thera's "darkest hours". Not to sound condescending, but why is this difficult
> > for you to grasp?
>
> It isn't, at all. However, this different source was put into place because of the issues and beliefs at the heart of the cabal. Dawn should not be out and about, raiding to kill or raiding to take items.