A few comments...(long)

A few comments...(long):
[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ Dioxide's CForum ]

Posted by Umguy on October 19, 2000 at 06:30:06:

In Reply to: Why are there no skilled players left? (elitist rant) posted by The Arcane(VIP) on October 19, 2000 at 03:53:34:

Other than you, Arcaneguy, the "other people" that Grallon refers to as having noticed this....their opinion doesn't mean much to me. (Unless one of them is like...Thinhallen and the other is Takashimi or something like that) Yours does.

However:

I think one thing you fail to see is that you were really damn kickass with your first char. You obviously have a few advantages over your fellow man when it comes to mudding, and I'm going to take a guess at them:

1. A fast link. Surprising how much this helps, but it helps. *shrug*
2. An incredibly logical and intuitive mind. As a first-char guy myself, I thought the healers (the mobs) would protect me from tracking monsters, and so I slept there, and of course died there.
3. A plus AND a minus: You see things as they are. You seem to be largely unaffected by the roleplay aspect of the game (that doesn't mean you can't roleplay, far from it...what I mean is a large part of your skill comes from knowing when roleplay is important and when to kick ass). Mostly what I mean by this is I bet you have a hard time getting "lost" in the roleplay. You've probably never had a char that meant so much to you in a roleplay sense that when you lost that "special friend" or some such, you IRL felt like crying. (I haven't either, since my first char, and I look back at that and mock myself...this isn't a cut on you).

"So what's your Umpoint, Umguy?"
You're jaded and cynical. Like an Imm. An Imm who is a good pker. The jaded-ness and cynicism is, by and large, what makes you a good pker. Being cynical about your fellow player makes you able to be confident that even if you DO fuck up, you'll lay the smack down, because the other player is worse off than you are.

Further points: Cador's gone. Cador played some feared chars. Diku is (by and large) gone. Sure they permagrouped, but even as individuals (at least, at hero levels) they had skills. Llorenthos, Zendrac, Remath, Haszak, Marzel, (I could go on, but won't)...at the time of Challen, these were all guys that you know could very well kick your ass if they got the first attack (ok maybe not Zendrac until he became emperor and got those shawtaby things, but the point stands). Smug permagroups are (thankfully) gone. As Challen, levelling up, they had what...2? 3? level 40-sitting summon/sleep/hold groups that I know of. Skillful? Sure, but not so much when alone. Frightening? You bet. Neosoft permagroups are (thankfully, again) gone. I don't mean to dis anyone here, but ANYtime you get one individual, he's not going to be nearly as scary as when you know he's got backup even if he can't talk to them IC.

Yet another point is this: You're now among the elite. You know how to play a warrior or a conjurer like a champ. Invoker too. Probably another couple of classes I'm missing. But you still don't know how to play all the classes like you can play a warrior or conjurer. "So Umwhat, Umguy?" Well, one of the things that shows people how to play a class is when they see an elite player kick ass with that class. Arial warriors are a good example. So are evil conjies. Pre-youplayinganevilconjie, there were...like...3 that I know of. Everyone thought an evil conjie sorta got screwed when it came to servitors, so they played gnomes and good aligns. If you took, say, a druid out and really layed down some smack (and by really layed down smack, I'm talking being able to pk effectively w/o being a sylvan and yet had people fearing to go out when you were on) there'd be several druids rolled up shortly thereafter.

The long the short of this point is: The skills of the average playerbase haven't fallen that much, your standards have risen.

My (hopefully) final point is this: the log board is not, in fact, a show-and-tell of the best players around, anymore. A few hypotheses for this:

1: As a skilled player who just nailed someone in a certain way that they could've countered, I sure as hell don't want to post that for everyone to analyze and tell every idiot out there how to counter.
2: As a semi-skilled player who fought well against a foe but still lost because I made one crucial mistake (that I learned from) I don't want to post that to everyone to criticize me and/or mock me.
3: As an idiot player who got lucky, I'd post that immediately (don't believe me? Look at the log board).

You can't really judge how skilled people are unless you're playing against them. Trying to comment on the log board really just doesn't cut it.

Man I went long on this. Oh well.

Follow Ups:

A few more comments (less long) The Arcane(VIP) 11:52:53 10/19/2000 (4)
- One other point that I totally forgot: Umguy 12:47:05 10/19/2000 (3)
  - Was waiting for someone to call me on that :P The Arcane(VIP) 13:08:02 10/19/2000 (2)
    - That's a good point: Umguy 13:20:00 10/19/2000 (1)
      - Oh, how I know that feeling .. Soren(VIP) 14:30:27 10/19/2000 (0)
I agree. Good comments, all of them spot on. n/t Tracker of the Wicked(VIP) 09:50:27 10/19/2000 (0)
A bit on the posting .. Soren(VIP) 08:16:45 10/19/2000 (0)

Post a Followup

Name:
E-mail:
Subject:
Comments:	> Other than you, Arcaneguy, the "other people" that Grallon refers to as having noticed this....their opinion doesn't mean much to me. (Unless one of them is like...Thinhallen and the other is Takashimi or something like that) Yours does. > However: > I think one thing you fail to see is that you were really damn kickass with your first char. You obviously have a few advantages over your fellow man when it comes to mudding, and I'm going to take a guess at them: > 1. A fast link. Surprising how much this helps, but it helps. shrug > 2. An incredibly logical and intuitive mind. As a first-char guy myself, I thought the healers (the mobs) would protect me from tracking monsters, and so I slept there, and of course died there. > 3. A plus AND a minus: You see things as they are. You seem to be largely unaffected by the roleplay aspect of the game (that doesn't mean you can't roleplay, far from it...what I mean is a large part of your skill comes from knowing when roleplay is important and when to kick ass). Mostly what I mean by this is I bet you have a hard time getting "lost" in the roleplay. You've probably never had a char that meant so much to you in a roleplay sense that when you lost that "special friend" or some such, you IRL felt like crying. (I haven't either, since my first char, and I look back at that and mock myself...this isn't a cut on you). > "So what's your Umpoint, Umguy?" > You're jaded and cynical. Like an Imm. An Imm who is a good pker. The jaded-ness and cynicism is, by and large, what makes you a good pker. Being cynical about your fellow player makes you able to be confident that even if you DO fuck up, you'll lay the smack down, because the other player is worse off than you are. > Further points: Cador's gone. Cador played some feared chars. Diku is (by and large) gone. Sure they permagrouped, but even as individuals (at least, at hero levels) they had skills. Llorenthos, Zendrac, Remath, Haszak, Marzel, (I could go on, but won't)...at the time of Challen, these were all guys that you know could very well kick your ass if they got the first attack (ok maybe not Zendrac until he became emperor and got those shawtaby things, but the point stands). Smug permagroups are (thankfully) gone. As Challen, levelling up, they had what...2? 3? level 40-sitting summon/sleep/hold groups that I know of. Skillful? Sure, but not so much when alone. Frightening? You bet. Neosoft permagroups are (thankfully, again) gone. I don't mean to dis anyone here, but ANYtime you get one individual, he's not going to be nearly as scary as when you know he's got backup even if he can't talk to them IC. > Yet another point is this: You're now among the elite. You know how to play a warrior or a conjurer like a champ. Invoker too. Probably another couple of classes I'm missing. But you still don't know how to play all the classes like you can play a warrior or conjurer. "So Umwhat, Umguy?" Well, one of the things that shows people how to play a class is when they see an elite player kick ass with that class. Arial warriors are a good example. So are evil conjies. Pre-youplayinganevilconjie, there were...like...3 that I know of. Everyone thought an evil conjie sorta got screwed when it came to servitors, so they played gnomes and good aligns. If you took, say, a druid out and really layed down some smack (and by really layed down smack, I'm talking being able to pk effectively w/o being a sylvan and yet had people fearing to go out when you were on) there'd be several druids rolled up shortly thereafter. > The long the short of this point is: The skills of the average playerbase haven't fallen that much, your standards have risen. > My (hopefully) final point is this: the log board is not, in fact, a show-and-tell of the best players around, anymore. A few hypotheses for this: > 1: As a skilled player who just nailed someone in a certain way that they could've countered, I sure as hell don't want to post that for everyone to analyze and tell every idiot out there how to counter. > 2: As a semi-skilled player who fought well against a foe but still lost because I made one crucial mistake (that I learned from) I don't want to post that to everyone to criticize me and/or mock me. > 3: As an idiot player who got lucky, I'd post that immediately (don't believe me? Look at the log board). > You can't really judge how skilled people are unless you're playing against them. Trying to comment on the log board really just doesn't cut it. > Man I went long on this. Oh well.

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ Dioxide's CForum ]