2-hand dedication. Is the Re-vamp all it could be ?

2-hand dedication. Is the Re-vamp all it could be ?:
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Posted by Concerned Paladin on July 25, 2000 at 00:44:02:

I dont intend this as a insult, But i am not level 25 newbie paladin who has just played with templars defense a little bit.
I spent easily 100 hundred hours just on templars defense beating on another player just to work out and see if specific combination work or if you get gained side affects.

Some stats for your interest.
(trigger count)
1000 strikes , 743 faiths, 328 purity, 166 deliverance.
Deliverance % may increase (due to my skill only being at 93%)
templar low thurst, 84 / 100 (1 round)
templar low spinthrust 73 / 100 (2 round)
templar low crescent 66 / 100 (2 round)
templar mid spin 64 / 100 (2 round)
templar mid cross 75 / 100 (2 round)
templar mid hiltsmash 86 / 100 (1 round)
templar mid slash 56 / 100 (2 round)
templar high spin 81 / 100 (1 round)
templar high deflect 72 / 100 (2 round)
templar high slash 60 / 100 (2 round)

All templars defense skills were preformed on a Player. The main aim of this was to gain understanding of what they did, and what side affects the skills held.
I wont mention what affects each skill has or if all of them have affects, I believe the immortals would have made note of the side affects if they wished it to be so.

Tracker of the wicked I think you need to take a good look at what your saying. Re-Read my previous post.

Simple facts:

- shield skills work almost flawlessly once at 100%.

- yes 2-hand get more "versatility".

- level 30 shield dedicated paladins can tank hero xp.

- hero 2-hand dedicated paladins + defensive prayers, still cannot tank anywhere near as well as a shield dedicate.

- ***** IMPORTANT POINT ***** , even if you land the TD skill, the side affects dont always kick in, as they do on other skills (warrior specs).

- With the combination of multiple skills , which all miss a glorified 20-30% of the time, as well as a added (guessing maybee 50%) failure rate of the side affects takeing hold. Do you really claim them to be powerfull and reliable.

- Your extremly narrow minded if you thinking only of simple pk based disarming. Mobs disarm, 90% of all warriors have a "special way to disarm" , trannys have fumble , the list goes on.

My personaly suggestions:
- considering the imense learning it takes to study the strikes, Perhaps increase the first % to 100%, so at least you get a hit at worse and the two round lag isnt a total waste. Strike of purity could be at least increased to a maximum of 80%. The remaining Deliverance strike however would be left unchanged. Including the sub 50% side affect takeing hold as well. It is seriously frustrating to miss 5 strikes in a row during a pk, or to be trying to kill a mob that is convulsing and you miss a strike nine times (yes probably bad luck) and you end up haveing to word.

* implementation structur.
- 100% strike of purity give the 100% strike of faith, 100% strike of deliverance gives the 80% strike of purity.

Ps: I think it would be interesting to see how other classes would find it, if they failed spells and skills in a similar ratio.
- Failing to cast sleep 20% of the time, and only haveing it take affect 50% of that 80%.
- Healers faily rejuv 20% of the time , only to have 50% of the healing work 50% of the 80%.
- warriors to try and stun or boneshatter, impale, flurry, drum, cranial, choke, bash, trip - fail 20% of the time with only 50% of those instances haveing their desired affect.
- Thiefs missing 20% of their backstabs trips, cheapshots.
- a-p's failing fireball iceball 20% of the time, missing 20% of their bashes, of all which only 50% of the desired affects took hold (the loss of movement, the lagging of a target)
- shamans failing 20% of their offense communes with 50% of the successfull communes leaving a side affect.
- transmuters failing shift to forms 20% of the time, failing form skills 20% of the time.
Need i go on ?, This mud runs with a simple aspect. The skills/spells work , if they work then there is a chance (some slim others 100%) the side affects will take hold.
Look at boneshatter , works close to 99%, and the side affect always takes hold.

(****) Id like for Immortals to comment on the reasons as to why the skills miss, and on top of that the side affects rarely take hold if they do land.

Follow Ups:

Re: 2-hand dedication. Is the Re-vamp all it could be ? Nepenthe(IMM) 10:46:20 7/25/2000 (2)
- You don't have to say, I know I suck. :P NT Kennan 12:05:11 7/25/2000 (1)
  - Damn right you suck! Bastard! :P n/t Freygan 12:20:17 7/25/2000 (0)
Are you crazy? I think things are pretty balanced. (text) Kennan 09:54:59 7/25/2000 (0)
A way to even Shied/2-handed would be to remove wrath, that way the shield-guy would do something new as well(and fail). (NT/) Annoyed Wrath-spam target. 05:13:25 7/25/2000 (1)
- That totally would not work, shield pal have little variety already..(little text) Kennan 14:11:45 7/25/2000 (0)
People love numbers, even when their meaning is questionable. (text) Proud Blade(VIP) 01:47:40 7/25/2000 (12)
- Re: Paladin 04:09:26 7/25/2000 (11)
  - Thanks for making my point. Proud Blade(VIP) 09:35:44 7/25/2000 (4)
    - Re: Thanks for making my point. Paladin 11:28:23 7/25/2000 (3)
      - Shok, I really hope you weren't the one that empowered this guy ;) j/k n/t T ot W 12:58:42 7/25/2000 (2)
        
        so do I...so do I...(n/t) Shokai(IMM) 14:19:14 7/25/2000 (1)
        
        You weren't, it's painfully obvious who as this paladin could be (no one else is this statistically anal retentive..not meant as an actual insult btw) N/T Graham 00:31:42 7/26/2000 (0)
  - Even with Boneshatter perfected, I had it miss all the time. Usually when I needed it most :P n/t Ioanis 04:25:16 7/25/2000 (0)
  - What are you smoking, NO WAY Boneshatter works 99% sorry. 3 time Mace Spec 04:12:31 7/25/2000 (4)
    - RE: Mine worked often about 95%, and the affects of boneshatter worked 100% on each hit. MoFo Man 05:40:39 7/25/2000 (3)
      - Umm if you boneshatter, the effects always happen. n/t Three time Mace spec 06:18:24 7/25/2000 (0)
      - Umm if you boneshatter, the effects always happen. n/t Three time Mace spec 06:18:13 7/25/2000 (0)
      - hrrrm Asa 06:04:40 7/25/2000 (0)
Well, why don't you play a Shield Spec, then? Tracker of the Wicked 01:29:06 7/25/2000 (1)
- P.S. Thanks for the figures n/t T ot W 01:44:14 7/25/2000 (0)
your study Baasch 01:07:53 7/25/2000 (0)
(like it) Assassin 00:56:40 7/25/2000 (2)
- Re: (like it) Ash 09:45:30 7/25/2000 (1)
  - Ah you're right, I forgot about chill touch. I'm sure there's more that we're both forgetting. But, you see my point (n/t) Assassin 10:11:09 7/25/2000 (0)

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Comments:	> I dont intend this as a insult, But i am not level 25 newbie paladin who has just played with templars defense a little bit. > I spent easily 100 hundred hours just on templars defense beating on another player just to work out and see if specific combination work or if you get gained side affects. > Some stats for your interest. > (trigger count) > 1000 strikes , 743 faiths, 328 purity, 166 deliverance. > Deliverance % may increase (due to my skill only being at 93%) > templar low thurst, 84 / 100 (1 round) > templar low spinthrust 73 / 100 (2 round) > templar low crescent 66 / 100 (2 round) > templar mid spin 64 / 100 (2 round) > templar mid cross 75 / 100 (2 round) > templar mid hiltsmash 86 / 100 (1 round) > templar mid slash 56 / 100 (2 round) > templar high spin 81 / 100 (1 round) > templar high deflect 72 / 100 (2 round) > templar high slash 60 / 100 (2 round) > All templars defense skills were preformed on a Player. The main aim of this was to gain understanding of what they did, and what side affects the skills held. > I wont mention what affects each skill has or if all of them have affects, I believe the immortals would have made note of the side affects if they wished it to be so. > Tracker of the wicked I think you need to take a good look at what your saying. Re-Read my previous post. > Simple facts: > - shield skills work almost flawlessly once at 100%. > - yes 2-hand get more "versatility". > - level 30 shield dedicated paladins can tank hero xp. > - hero 2-hand dedicated paladins + defensive prayers, still cannot tank anywhere near as well as a shield dedicate. > - *** IMPORTANT POINT *** , even if you land the TD skill, the side affects dont always kick in, as they do on other skills (warrior specs). > - With the combination of multiple skills , which all miss a glorified 20-30% of the time, as well as a added (guessing maybee 50%) failure rate of the side affects takeing hold. Do you really claim them to be powerfull and reliable. > - Your extremly narrow minded if you thinking only of simple pk based disarming. Mobs disarm, 90% of all warriors have a "special way to disarm" , trannys have fumble , the list goes on. > My personaly suggestions: > - considering the imense learning it takes to study the strikes, Perhaps increase the first % to 100%, so at least you get a hit at worse and the two round lag isnt a total waste. Strike of purity could be at least increased to a maximum of 80%. The remaining Deliverance strike however would be left unchanged. Including the sub 50% side affect takeing hold as well. It is seriously frustrating to miss 5 strikes in a row during a pk, or to be trying to kill a mob that is convulsing and you miss a strike nine times (yes probably bad luck) and you end up haveing to word. > * implementation structur. > - 100% strike of purity give the 100% strike of faith, 100% strike of deliverance gives the 80% strike of purity. > > Ps: I think it would be interesting to see how other classes would find it, if they failed spells and skills in a similar ratio. > - Failing to cast sleep 20% of the time, and only haveing it take affect 50% of that 80%. > - Healers faily rejuv 20% of the time , only to have 50% of the healing work 50% of the 80%. > - warriors to try and stun or boneshatter, impale, flurry, drum, cranial, choke, bash, trip - fail 20% of the time with only 50% of those instances haveing their desired affect. > - Thiefs missing 20% of their backstabs trips, cheapshots. > - a-p's failing fireball iceball 20% of the time, missing 20% of their bashes, of all which only 50% of the desired affects took hold (the loss of movement, the lagging of a target) > - shamans failing 20% of their offense communes with 50% of the successfull communes leaving a side affect. > - transmuters failing shift to forms 20% of the time, failing form skills 20% of the time. > Need i go on ?, This mud runs with a simple aspect. The skills/spells work , if they work then there is a chance (some slim others 100%) the side affects will take hold. > Look at boneshatter , works close to 99%, and the side affect always takes hold. > (****) Id like for Immortals to comment on the reasons as to why the skills miss, and on top of that the side affects rarely take hold if they do land.

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