I am rereading that and its fucking nonsense.
I think I was half alseep when I read/replied to your post.

I thought you were saying that Echo's is the big whopper that makes bards so nasty.
I was saying that it does make bards nasty but only realllly nasty when you look at other aspects that stack.

If (A) is a normal bard, not prepping out the butt and uncabaled Echos is the only thing thats guna stop them from getting hosed by people (A) can also be a battle bard, sure they will be able to eat more damage with resist and resistance but if they dont get off echos trip and bash make them meat shields that can only go so far.

If (B) is imperial bard, well there are alot of things that make them dirty dirty dirty even if they can't get echos off.

Same goes for (C) who is a bad ass player who knows how to rock a bard.

I think what I was trying to say was that Echos is not as bad as some of the new stuff that makes it (the adition of it) over the top.

I really think edges fucked more in CF then they fixed/helped.
Some are great and others need to be dug out of CF with a rusty screwdriver and stabbed a few times.

I understand what your saying about mana cost and 1 round lag and honestly being able to get that song off a lil bit to fucking easy, but with out that ability to dodge via echos some hits/lag moves/spec skills They will get eaten up.

Now that is messed up in other ways now - Evade - high dex retaredness - Edges that make you char dodge everything from thirsting polespecs - and edges that make you intimidate thirsted mino's like your satin himself - and all that stuff is what makes baseline echos see some fucked up.

I guess what I was trying to say was that Echos has been good even great for a long long long time. Only now with all the new flashy bullshit has it become subject of "whoa fuck that" mindset.

I hope that helps define what I meant. Again Its been a long weekend hahaha