> Countries change and even though the origin of the US has almost religious status the current US is far from it. Jefferson would not recognize the america he helped create and those ideals that he held high are just a shadow these days I would say. Which is not a bad thing, they were slave owners for example and even if Jefferson in particular was against it he still owned slaves.
<br>>
<br>> The american dream has changed its meaning constantly over history, one of the biggest "proofs" that the american dream existed was said to be the G.I Bill which is one of the largest social welfare programs ever: [
en.wikipedia.org]
<br>>
<br>> It was also a massive success and truly helped the US as a country after ww2. The addition of God to the money/Pledge. Imperialistic wars to promote US interests abroad (not judging, just stating) are all things against the original meaning of the US.
<br>>
<br>> The US has changed and while I do realise where you are comming from but you must realise that you are not loyal to the past US but the current US administrations and its beliefs. The war in Iraq and the patriot act is more of a betrayal of the founding fathers than socialized health care in my opinion.
<br>>
<br>> Disclamer: I don't hate the US or the US citizens. I just think it is fun to discuss these things, especially with US citizens themselves.
<br>>
<br>
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Rade |
968 |
October 08, 2007 05:03PM |
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ShroomKing |
608 |
October 08, 2007 07:05PM |
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Pro |
529 |
October 08, 2007 07:51PM |
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hopelessdwarf |
606 |
October 08, 2007 09:54PM |
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Rade |
652 |
October 09, 2007 01:38PM |
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Pro |
651 |
October 08, 2007 07:51PM |
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Scrimbul |
682 |
October 08, 2007 08:10PM |
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Cenatar |
664 |
October 08, 2007 10:28PM |
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ExPaladin |
678 |
October 09, 2007 01:03AM |
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Cenatar |
700 |
October 09, 2007 02:17AM |
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Pro |
685 |
October 09, 2007 05:54AM |
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Cenatar |
1359 |
October 09, 2007 07:44AM |
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Pro |
624 |
October 09, 2007 12:26PM |
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Cenatar |
647 |
October 09, 2007 12:34PM |
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Pro |
736 |
October 09, 2007 03:17PM |
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ExPaladin |
602 |
October 09, 2007 06:28AM |
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Cenatar |
588 |
October 09, 2007 07:40AM |
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ExPaladin |
743 |
October 09, 2007 08:50AM |
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hopelessdwarf |
805 |
October 09, 2007 08:01AM |
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Pro |
626 |
October 09, 2007 05:53AM |
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DurNominator |
687 |
October 09, 2007 06:04AM |
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Cenatar |
718 |
October 09, 2007 07:33AM |
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Cenatar |
567 |
October 09, 2007 07:34AM |
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hopelessdwarf |
606 |
October 09, 2007 07:57AM |
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Pro |
650 |
October 09, 2007 12:22PM |
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Pro |
575 |
October 09, 2007 12:23PM |
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Death_Claw |
652 |
October 10, 2007 06:34AM |
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Pro |
615 |
October 10, 2007 06:59AM |
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Odrirg |
600 |
October 09, 2007 07:17AM |
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DurNominator |
683 |
October 08, 2007 11:10PM |
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Pro |
561 |
October 09, 2007 05:52AM |
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DurNominator |
712 |
October 09, 2007 07:04AM |
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Death_Claw |
651 |
October 09, 2007 07:23AM |
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Pro |
636 |
October 09, 2007 11:34AM |
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[TheForsaken-] |
1268 |
October 09, 2007 07:23AM |
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Death_Claw |
747 |
October 09, 2007 07:24AM |
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Cenatar |
690 |
October 09, 2007 07:47AM |
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[TheForsaken-] |
668 |
October 09, 2007 08:05AM |
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Rade |
581 |
October 09, 2007 01:16PM |
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[TheForsaken-] |
729 |
October 10, 2007 08:10AM |
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Pro |
663 |
October 09, 2007 11:32AM |
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Cenatar |
603 |
October 09, 2007 12:35PM |
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Pro |
564 |
October 09, 2007 03:16PM |
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DurNominator |
762 |
October 09, 2007 11:33PM |
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Pro |
774 |
October 10, 2007 07:57AM |
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Cenatar |
570 |
October 10, 2007 01:19AM |
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Pro |
554 |
October 10, 2007 06:57AM |
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Cenatar |
529 |
October 10, 2007 07:06AM |
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Pro |
577 |
October 10, 2007 07:55AM |
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Yhorian |
718 |
October 09, 2007 07:50AM |
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[TheForsaken-] |
745 |
October 09, 2007 08:16AM |
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Lokain |
642 |
October 09, 2007 11:04AM |
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Pro |
751 |
October 09, 2007 11:31AM |
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Graham |
723 |
October 09, 2007 11:36AM |
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Pro |
669 |
October 09, 2007 12:01PM |
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Cenatar |
714 |
October 09, 2007 12:31PM |
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Pro |
664 |
October 09, 2007 01:06PM |
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Cenatar |
678 |
October 09, 2007 01:26PM |
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Pro |
679 |
October 09, 2007 03:15PM |
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DurNominator |
663 |
October 09, 2007 10:40PM |
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Pro |
777 |
October 10, 2007 04:52AM |
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Cenatar |
639 |
October 10, 2007 07:04AM |
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Pro |
772 |
October 10, 2007 07:54AM |
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Cenatar |
545 |
October 10, 2007 07:58AM |
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Graham |
767 |
October 10, 2007 09:15AM |
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Pro |
689 |
October 10, 2007 09:46AM |
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Graham |
707 |
October 10, 2007 11:37AM |
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Pro |
643 |
October 10, 2007 05:16PM |
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DurNominator |
694 |
October 10, 2007 09:34PM |
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Cenatar |
663 |
October 10, 2007 12:13AM |
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Graham |
601 |
October 09, 2007 12:51PM |
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DurNominator |
688 |
October 09, 2007 10:24PM |
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hopelessdwarf |
661 |
October 10, 2007 12:34PM |
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Pro |
749 |
October 10, 2007 10:51PM |
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Graham |
725 |
October 11, 2007 01:36PM |
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Blackbird |
610 |
October 09, 2007 04:14PM |
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Death_Claw |
537 |
October 10, 2007 04:59AM |
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DurNominator |
672 |
October 11, 2007 06:01AM |
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Rade |
711 |
October 11, 2007 08:14AM |
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DurNominator |
789 |
October 11, 2007 08:40AM |
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Death_Claw |
688 |
October 16, 2007 10:42AM |
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Death_Claw |
650 |
October 16, 2007 10:49AM |
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Yhorian |
642 |
October 09, 2007 07:53AM |
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Pro |
596 |
October 09, 2007 11:28AM |
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Lokain |
558 |
October 09, 2007 01:08PM |
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Pro |
517 |
October 09, 2007 03:14PM |
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DurNominator |
588 |
October 09, 2007 10:26PM |
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Pro |
540 |
October 10, 2007 06:57AM |
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DurNominator |
537 |
October 10, 2007 09:11AM |
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Pro |
1262 |
October 10, 2007 03:44PM |
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Death_Claw |
598 |
October 09, 2007 07:19AM |
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[TheForsaken-] |
618 |
October 09, 2007 07:31AM |
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Rade |
557 |
October 09, 2007 01:48PM |
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Nivek |
560 |
October 09, 2007 05:29PM |
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Rade |
568 |
October 09, 2007 01:05PM |
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Chalupah |
668 |
October 09, 2007 03:14PM |
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Rade |
714 |
October 09, 2007 03:33PM |
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Cenatar |
710 |
October 10, 2007 12:17AM |
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Pro |
646 |
October 10, 2007 04:48AM |
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Cenatar |
607 |
October 10, 2007 07:05AM |
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Pro |
702 |
October 10, 2007 07:53AM |
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ExPaladin |
668 |
October 11, 2007 04:52AM |
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Cenatar |
805 |
October 11, 2007 09:38PM |
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ExPaladin |
682 |
October 15, 2007 05:18AM |
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Cenatar |
613 |
October 15, 2007 08:05AM |
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Death_Claw |
763 |
October 16, 2007 10:56AM |
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Rade |
628 |
October 11, 2007 04:41AM |
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DurNominator |
710 |
October 11, 2007 06:17AM |
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DurNominator |
591 |
October 11, 2007 06:34AM |
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Death_Claw |
693 |
October 16, 2007 10:39AM |
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Rade |
681 |
October 11, 2007 08:08AM |
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DurNominator |
591 |
October 11, 2007 08:40AM |
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Rade |
804 |
October 09, 2007 03:41PM |
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Nivek |
506 |
October 09, 2007 05:24PM |
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Nivek |
625 |
October 09, 2007 05:28PM |
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Pro |
688 |
October 09, 2007 07:24PM |
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Vladamir |
535 |
October 09, 2007 08:53PM |
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ExPaladin |
652 |
October 10, 2007 02:35AM |
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Rade |
513 |
October 11, 2007 04:36AM |
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Scrimbul |
709 |
October 09, 2007 06:44PM |
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Nivek |
539 |
October 10, 2007 04:23PM |
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Pro |
492 |
October 10, 2007 05:15PM |
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Cenatar |
593 |
October 10, 2007 09:41PM |
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Nivek |
1345 |
October 11, 2007 12:29PM |
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Nivek |
696 |
October 11, 2007 12:30PM |
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Scrimbul |
619 |
October 10, 2007 07:31PM |
|
Nivek |
624 |
October 11, 2007 12:26PM |
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Scrimbul |
680 |
October 11, 2007 03:47PM |
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Nivek |
611 |
October 11, 2007 03:57PM |
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Isildur |
762 |
October 15, 2007 05:31AM |
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Pro |
513 |
October 10, 2007 03:00PM |
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Kadsuane |
742 |
October 10, 2007 04:55PM |
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Death_Claw |
584 |
October 11, 2007 04:16AM |
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jegec |
780 |
October 11, 2007 02:25PM |
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Death_Claw |
646 |
October 15, 2007 06:44AM |
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Rade |
614 |
October 11, 2007 05:19AM |