The people do control where their money goes.

October 24, 2007 12:46PM
It's the goverment that makes your country's budget, not the Scientific community. The politicians are qualified to determine which fields of research in general they want to fund(in fashion of "more money for medical research"). <br> <br>However, the categories should be broad enough that give the general idea of development, but not too well determined, as the politicians aren't qualified to tell which projects are the promising ones or are most likely to produce something good. Thus, it is left for the trained experts to decide, while people decides only the broad outlines they are competent enough to grasp. Decisions that need expertise to be good ones should be decided by experts instead of the ignorant majority.
Subject Author Views Posted

Hehe, two hilariously stupid people

Cenatar 1248 October 23, 2007 09:36AM

Intelligent Design = Creationism

infi 783 October 23, 2007 03:04PM

In a sense. But probably not the sense you mean. txt

Isildur 927 October 23, 2007 06:07PM

Contradiction

infi 800 October 24, 2007 09:04AM

I don't understand the contradiction. txt

Isildur 766 October 24, 2007 10:01AM

Re: I don't understand the contradiction. txt

infi 767 October 24, 2007 11:59AM

Re: I don't understand the contradiction. txt

Isildur 858 October 24, 2007 02:01PM

You just called Ben Stein stupid?? n/t

Pro 867 October 23, 2007 03:19PM

He's attacking &quot;academics&quot;

infi 686 October 23, 2007 03:35PM

Lets not go around putting science and academia in the same boat n/t

Lokain 830 October 23, 2007 05:24PM

He's not attacking &quot;academics&quot;

KatistrofiK 778 October 23, 2007 05:38PM

Uhm

Cenatar 897 October 23, 2007 09:35PM

Have you rigorously tested it yourself?

Death_Claw 862 October 24, 2007 04:15AM

Ok, a challenge for you.

Cenatar 907 October 24, 2007 06:17AM

You can't answer his challenge with a challenge.

Pro 785 October 24, 2007 06:25AM

Support what?

Cenatar 809 October 24, 2007 06:46AM

Re: Ok, a challenge for you.

Death_Claw 813 October 24, 2007 07:52AM

Re: Ok, a challenge for you.

Cenatar 748 October 24, 2007 08:06AM

Religion Censors!!! Science Doesn't.

infi 936 October 24, 2007 08:27AM

Chill with the hysterics. n/t

Death_Claw 950 October 24, 2007 08:30AM

You are tossing out some pretty broad topics.

Pro 867 October 24, 2007 08:42AM

Re: You are tossing out some pretty broad topics.

Cenatar 818 October 24, 2007 08:48AM

Re: You are tossing out some pretty broad topics.

MorsGotha 804 October 24, 2007 09:43AM

/agree -nt-

infi 903 October 24, 2007 09:46AM

Agreed what? You haven't said anything of substance.

Pro 900 October 24, 2007 10:21AM

Quite correct. Fradulent scientists get outed. Just like ID has been. -nt-

infi 774 October 24, 2007 11:07AM

ID hasn't been ousted. That's just it.

Pro 948 October 24, 2007 10:20AM

Actually ID has been ousted

infi 846 October 24, 2007 10:23AM

Re: ID hasn't been ousted. That's just it.

MorsGotha 902 October 24, 2007 10:48AM

Re: Religion Censors!!! Science Doesn't.

Isildur 811 October 24, 2007 09:02AM

Are you assuming scientists have no ethics?

infi 855 October 24, 2007 09:12AM

What are you smoking?

Death_Claw 802 October 24, 2007 09:24AM

Every sperm is saaacred. Every sperm is great!

infi 764 October 24, 2007 09:34AM

fyi. txt

Isildur 878 October 24, 2007 10:22AM

I'll buy that. You made a good point -nt

infi 894 October 24, 2007 11:05AM

I'm somewhat against hormonal birth control too.

DurNominator 836 October 24, 2007 11:07AM

Re: fyi. txt

mc_no_u 717 October 25, 2007 04:37PM

You're a high school physics teacher? Dude. Learn to read. txt

Isildur 786 October 24, 2007 10:07AM

And I teach evolution (well) in my biology class.

infi 864 October 24, 2007 10:19AM

Re: And I teach evolution (well) in my biology class.

Isildur 905 October 24, 2007 01:21PM

Ethics are based on society and it's values.

DurNominator 752 October 25, 2007 10:18PM

no one is stifling research.

infi 904 October 24, 2007 07:02AM

More people in this country believe in God than don't.

Death_Claw 738 October 24, 2007 07:55AM

Belief != Fact. My money is with fact.

infi 938 October 24, 2007 08:17AM

This is why I'm agnostic. NT

AA 875 October 24, 2007 08:42AM

Re: Have you rigorously tested it yourself?

MorsGotha 911 October 24, 2007 10:35AM

Wow. Amazingly close-minded. NT

AA 843 October 24, 2007 11:30PM

That's right Prothero, Ben Stein is a fucking retard.

mc_no_u 847 October 23, 2007 06:04PM

Re: That's right Prothero, Ben Stein is a fucking retard.

Pro 805 October 23, 2007 06:11PM

He was valedictorian of Yale Law School. n/t

Death_Claw 910 October 24, 2007 04:04AM

ANd this fact has gone to his head.

infi 888 October 24, 2007 07:04AM

Explain. n/t

Death_Claw 797 October 24, 2007 07:48AM

Explaination

infi 843 October 24, 2007 08:05AM

Which thing did he say that was wrong? n/t

Death_Claw 753 October 24, 2007 08:28AM

We are stifling ID research??? -nt-

infi 639 October 24, 2007 08:30AM

So ellaborate how that isn't correct. You know like, cite a source. n/t

Death_Claw 841 October 24, 2007 08:31AM

Sorry, that is not how it works. It is you who is claiming something(nt)

Cenatar 913 October 24, 2007 08:34AM

No. You are the one that made the initial claim.

Pro 861 October 24, 2007 08:38AM

Grammar, Pro, grammar.

DurNominator 956 October 24, 2007 10:12AM

So we attack the man to refute his stance.

Pro 792 October 24, 2007 11:17AM

It is however a perfect example of what DC and I are talking about.

Pro 847 October 24, 2007 11:21AM

It might have been off topic

DurNominator 805 October 24, 2007 11:49AM

If I consistanty did mix you're and your.

Pro 920 October 24, 2007 04:05PM

He said Stein was full of shit. What's he basing that on? Gut instinct? n/t

Death_Claw 852 October 24, 2007 08:45AM

Opinion, just like Ben Steins.

Cenatar 877 October 24, 2007 08:51AM

You people make me laugh. n/t

Death_Claw 1513 October 24, 2007 08:53AM

The burden of proof is on him (or you)

infi 793 October 24, 2007 08:37AM

Right, take your word for it, I gotcha. In other words you've got nothin. n/t

Death_Claw 919 October 24, 2007 08:45AM

The thing is, the Creationists have got nothing.

DurNominator 1029 October 24, 2007 09:57AM

Then pit the two together.

Pro 965 October 25, 2007 06:59AM

I haven't heard anything that is obviously wrong.

Pro 960 October 24, 2007 08:36AM

That is just hilarious.

Cenatar 832 October 24, 2007 08:46AM

At the very least ID identifies areas of complexity that need exploration.

Death_Claw 854 October 24, 2007 08:49AM

Again, incorrect.

Cenatar 897 October 24, 2007 08:53AM

You really don't know how to read.

Death_Claw 819 October 24, 2007 09:18AM

bullshit

infi 895 October 24, 2007 09:25AM

Thankfully you don't represent the scientific community. n/t

Death_Claw 838 October 24, 2007 09:32AM

I represent the scientific community on a daily basis.

infi 829 October 24, 2007 09:35AM

What do you do? n/t

Death_Claw 823 October 24, 2007 11:03AM

Hah, you're a teacher. Well that explains a thing or two.

Death_Claw 767 October 24, 2007 11:08AM

He get's his orders from the text book and ideas from the

Pro 871 October 24, 2007 11:15AM

I am a biochemistry student at a University level.

Istirith 863 October 27, 2007 06:50AM

Just to clarify (disclaimer)..

Istirith 853 October 27, 2007 06:56AM

Re: You really don't know how to read.

Cenatar 1009 October 24, 2007 09:31AM

His point is that bias against ID excludes them from grants &amp; papers. n/t

Death_Claw 831 October 24, 2007 09:33AM

And you just believe that?

Cenatar 837 October 24, 2007 09:35AM

WHy don't they publish their own journal? -nt- =)

infi 996 October 24, 2007 09:36AM

Because they can't get the funding god damn it.

Pro 847 October 24, 2007 11:34AM

How ironic.

MorsGotha 912 October 24, 2007 11:39AM

Are you saying that...

Cenatar 879 October 24, 2007 11:47AM

Kozjabozja n/t

Uli 783 October 24, 2007 12:34PM

Tell me one thing

DurNominator 854 October 24, 2007 12:19PM

I don't know.

Pro 865 October 24, 2007 05:14PM

Re: I don't know.

DurNominator 984 October 25, 2007 01:46AM

How many times must it be said?

Pro 917 October 25, 2007 10:41AM

The crux of the problem

DurNominator 1441 October 25, 2007 09:37PM

I didn't say I believed him.

Death_Claw 822 October 24, 2007 11:15AM

The bias against ID is the exact same as the bias against alchemy. NT

MorsGotha 860 October 24, 2007 09:48AM

Good thing Alchemists over came that.

Pro 876 October 24, 2007 11:16AM

ID papers are excluded because the peers who reviewed them thought

DurNominator 809 October 24, 2007 10:20AM

it's not a theory

infi 813 October 24, 2007 10:22AM

Theories are ideas that can be tested or

Pro 805 October 24, 2007 11:13AM

I've never read of anything that

Pro 812 October 24, 2007 11:12AM

The outside guidance is not a requirement.

DurNominator 901 October 24, 2007 11:37AM

I make cookies out of flour and sugar because that's what's needed.

Pro 855 October 25, 2007 06:53AM

Science built itself a strong foundation...

infi 736 October 24, 2007 08:50AM

Swticharoo.

Pro 943 October 24, 2007 11:28AM

I like your wording. Pretty much in line with what Ben was saying.

Pro 860 October 24, 2007 11:32AM

Plenty of people with credentials are (ideologically speaking) idiots.

mc_no_u 808 October 25, 2007 04:36PM

Don't you get it, Pro?

Odrirg 942 October 24, 2007 04:47AM

Sir?

Cenatar 880 October 24, 2007 06:49AM

I wouldn't have a problem....

Odrirg 778 October 24, 2007 07:08AM

Incorrect

Cenatar 902 October 24, 2007 07:19AM

As a high school physics teacher teaching biology

infi 846 October 24, 2007 07:38AM

The ultimate irony

infi 799 October 24, 2007 08:59AM

Once again proving the &quot;evolution fanboys&quot; are nutty. n/t

Death_Claw 824 October 24, 2007 09:34AM

Good argument. You clearly show you know how science works in this thread(nt)

Cenatar 1006 October 24, 2007 09:38AM

I may be off here, but what I think he i saying is that.

Pro 902 October 24, 2007 10:27AM

Yeah.

Death_Claw 803 October 24, 2007 11:03AM

Although...

MorsGotha 879 October 24, 2007 11:15AM

Re: Although...

Death_Claw 989 October 24, 2007 11:17AM

Re: Although...

MorsGotha 870 October 24, 2007 11:25AM

What're you blathering about?

Death_Claw 856 October 24, 2007 11:30AM

I was quite clear. nt

MorsGotha 781 October 24, 2007 11:31AM

Right, keep fighting your straw man. n/t

Death_Claw 970 October 24, 2007 11:41AM

A straw man is easy to refute. You have not even tried yet. nt

MorsGotha 843 October 24, 2007 11:52AM

Ok. That wasn't me in the post above refuting your point or anything. n/t

Death_Claw 802 October 24, 2007 11:53AM

Bear in mind Ben Stein says specifically he doesn't believe in ID.

Death_Claw 753 October 24, 2007 11:27AM

Re: Bear in mind Ben Stein says specifically he doesn't believe in ID.

MorsGotha 773 October 24, 2007 11:31AM

What do you mean?

Cenatar 821 October 24, 2007 11:39AM

So you track scientists like many people do Politicians?

Pro 868 October 25, 2007 06:50AM

What?

Cenatar 823 October 25, 2007 10:33AM

I'm not the one who has the onus to prove anything.

Pro 846 October 25, 2007 06:32PM

Actually I am an theory of gravity fanboy. It explains stuff. ID doesn't. NT

MorsGotha 829 October 24, 2007 09:59AM

What does that have to do with this thread?

Death_Claw 917 October 24, 2007 11:12AM

Bullshit again.

Cenatar 775 October 24, 2007 11:42AM

Have you watched the movie? Last I heard it wasn't out yet. n/t

Death_Claw 913 October 24, 2007 11:44AM

I've watched the trailer and interviews. It is pretty open with its views(nt)

Cenatar 770 October 24, 2007 11:45AM

A question or two for Pro and Death Claw

Cenatar 774 October 24, 2007 11:30AM

What does the Onion have to do with this?

Death_Claw 1012 October 24, 2007 11:39AM

So you are saying you don't know what ID is?

Cenatar 898 October 24, 2007 11:44AM

That's the point.

Death_Claw 845 October 24, 2007 11:51AM

In your humble opinion, Is ID science? nt

MorsGotha 759 October 24, 2007 11:53AM

Wow. Whoosh. Right over your head. n/t

Death_Claw 875 October 24, 2007 11:54AM

Actually, he has a point. Do you think ID is science?(nt)

Cenatar 858 October 24, 2007 11:56AM

On the contrary, this is the very heart of the problem...

MorsGotha 737 October 24, 2007 11:56AM

No it doesn't.

Death_Claw 707 October 24, 2007 12:01PM

A good exercise in rationality:

MorsGotha 823 October 24, 2007 12:06PM

But I am free to choose whether I want to fund your research or not.

DurNominator 763 October 24, 2007 12:06PM

Therein lies my point. It should be up to the people who pay for it.

Death_Claw 797 October 24, 2007 12:21PM

Who do you think is the most competent party to make the funding decisions?

DurNominator 728 October 24, 2007 12:27PM

You don't see a problem with an unelected minority spending public dollars?

Death_Claw 708 October 24, 2007 12:31PM

The people do control where their money goes.

DurNominator 829 October 24, 2007 12:46PM

Right, and Stein is suggesting that process isn't working correctly. n/t

Death_Claw 1458 October 24, 2007 12:49PM

Does Stein has something that he considers as a better idea? nt

DurNominator 841 October 24, 2007 01:10PM

I guess we should wait to see the movie. n/t

Death_Claw 869 October 24, 2007 01:11PM

It is not about money,

Cenatar 816 October 24, 2007 12:49PM

I don't like the way our education system does things.

Death_Claw 901 October 24, 2007 12:58PM

Re: I don't like the way our education system does things.

Cenatar 909 October 24, 2007 01:05PM

Way to miss the point. Heheh. Read my post again.

Death_Claw 790 October 24, 2007 01:10PM

Let me try that again in English.

Death_Claw 884 October 24, 2007 01:14PM

Re: Way to miss the point. Heheh. Read my post again.

Cenatar 862 October 24, 2007 01:15PM

A school course is not some predefined static thing.

Death_Claw 889 October 24, 2007 01:25PM

Ah, ok.

Cenatar 832 October 24, 2007 01:41PM

That's an internally inconsistent statement. n/t

Death_Claw 831 October 24, 2007 02:36PM

Both ethics and gymnastics have place in the educational system.

DurNominator 869 October 24, 2007 01:20PM

Ultimately that is your *opinion*.

Death_Claw 805 October 24, 2007 01:32PM

I sort of summed up all sports into gymnastics.

DurNominator 846 October 24, 2007 02:17PM

Whoosh. n/t

Death_Claw 935 October 24, 2007 02:37PM

Actually

Cenatar 863 October 24, 2007 12:11PM

Great, we've come to an agreement.

Death_Claw 818 October 24, 2007 12:24PM

Then again

Cenatar 887 October 24, 2007 12:29PM

In your humble opinion, Is ID science? nt

MorsGotha 842 October 24, 2007 11:46AM

I don't care if it's science or not.

Pro 1000 October 25, 2007 06:41PM

I'm just curious..

Istirith 877 October 25, 2007 07:18PM

My only real problem with this debate is the participants

ExPaladin 851 October 25, 2007 02:20AM

Re: My only real problem with this debate is the participants

Death_Claw 930 October 25, 2007 03:43AM

Re: My only real problem with this debate is the participants

Istirith 851 October 27, 2007 04:31PM

Some points to raise on Stein...

Istirith 812 October 25, 2007 03:26PM

Also, I'd be interested to see this movie.

Istirith 917 October 25, 2007 03:41PM



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