Also, I'd be interested to see this movie.

Istirith

October 25, 2007 03:41PM

It looks like sensationalism, exaggerations and propaganda. Stein seems like quite an intelligent guy and a shrewd operator in terms of utilizing media to get an opinion across. O'Reilly however, seems like a dismissive, arrogant moron. He has a gift for stirring up publicity but his sensationalist commentaries don't really offer anything to anyone other than 'I'm right and I know it. If you disagree you're wrong and probably an idiot.'

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Subject	Author	Views	Posted
Hehe, two hilariously stupid people	Cenatar	1248	October 23, 2007 09:36AM
Intelligent Design = Creationism	infi	783	October 23, 2007 03:04PM
In a sense. But probably not the sense you mean. txt	Isildur	927	October 23, 2007 06:07PM
Contradiction	infi	800	October 24, 2007 09:04AM
I don't understand the contradiction. txt	Isildur	766	October 24, 2007 10:01AM
Re: I don't understand the contradiction. txt	infi	767	October 24, 2007 11:59AM
Re: I don't understand the contradiction. txt	Isildur	858	October 24, 2007 02:01PM
You just called Ben Stein stupid?? n/t	Pro	867	October 23, 2007 03:19PM
He's attacking "academics"	infi	686	October 23, 2007 03:35PM
Lets not go around putting science and academia in the same boat n/t	Lokain	830	October 23, 2007 05:24PM
He's not attacking "academics"	KatistrofiK	778	October 23, 2007 05:38PM
Uhm	Cenatar	897	October 23, 2007 09:35PM
Have you rigorously tested it yourself?	Death_Claw	862	October 24, 2007 04:15AM
Ok, a challenge for you.	Cenatar	907	October 24, 2007 06:17AM
You can't answer his challenge with a challenge.	Pro	785	October 24, 2007 06:25AM
Support what?	Cenatar	809	October 24, 2007 06:46AM
Re: Ok, a challenge for you.	Death_Claw	813	October 24, 2007 07:52AM
Re: Ok, a challenge for you.	Cenatar	748	October 24, 2007 08:06AM
Religion Censors!!! Science Doesn't.	infi	936	October 24, 2007 08:27AM
Chill with the hysterics. n/t	Death_Claw	950	October 24, 2007 08:30AM
You are tossing out some pretty broad topics.	Pro	867	October 24, 2007 08:42AM
Re: You are tossing out some pretty broad topics.	Cenatar	818	October 24, 2007 08:48AM
Re: You are tossing out some pretty broad topics.	MorsGotha	804	October 24, 2007 09:43AM
/agree -nt-	infi	903	October 24, 2007 09:46AM
Agreed what? You haven't said anything of substance.	Pro	900	October 24, 2007 10:21AM
Quite correct. Fradulent scientists get outed. Just like ID has been. -nt-	infi	774	October 24, 2007 11:07AM
ID hasn't been ousted. That's just it.	Pro	948	October 24, 2007 10:20AM
Actually ID has been ousted	infi	846	October 24, 2007 10:23AM
Re: ID hasn't been ousted. That's just it.	MorsGotha	902	October 24, 2007 10:48AM
Re: Religion Censors!!! Science Doesn't.	Isildur	811	October 24, 2007 09:02AM
Are you assuming scientists have no ethics?	infi	855	October 24, 2007 09:12AM
What are you smoking?	Death_Claw	802	October 24, 2007 09:24AM
Every sperm is saaacred. Every sperm is great!	infi	764	October 24, 2007 09:34AM
fyi. txt	Isildur	878	October 24, 2007 10:22AM
I'll buy that. You made a good point -nt	infi	894	October 24, 2007 11:05AM
I'm somewhat against hormonal birth control too.	DurNominator	836	October 24, 2007 11:07AM
Re: fyi. txt	mc_no_u	717	October 25, 2007 04:37PM
You're a high school physics teacher? Dude. Learn to read. txt	Isildur	786	October 24, 2007 10:07AM
And I teach evolution (well) in my biology class.	infi	864	October 24, 2007 10:19AM
Re: And I teach evolution (well) in my biology class.	Isildur	905	October 24, 2007 01:21PM
Ethics are based on society and it's values.	DurNominator	752	October 25, 2007 10:18PM
no one is stifling research.	infi	904	October 24, 2007 07:02AM
More people in this country believe in God than don't.	Death_Claw	738	October 24, 2007 07:55AM
Belief != Fact. My money is with fact.	infi	938	October 24, 2007 08:17AM
This is why I'm agnostic. NT	AA	875	October 24, 2007 08:42AM
Re: Have you rigorously tested it yourself?	MorsGotha	911	October 24, 2007 10:35AM
Wow. Amazingly close-minded. NT	AA	843	October 24, 2007 11:30PM
That's right Prothero, Ben Stein is a fucking retard.	mc_no_u	847	October 23, 2007 06:04PM
Re: That's right Prothero, Ben Stein is a fucking retard.	Pro	805	October 23, 2007 06:11PM
He was valedictorian of Yale Law School. n/t	Death_Claw	910	October 24, 2007 04:04AM
ANd this fact has gone to his head.	infi	888	October 24, 2007 07:04AM
Explain. n/t	Death_Claw	797	October 24, 2007 07:48AM
Explaination	infi	843	October 24, 2007 08:05AM
Which thing did he say that was wrong? n/t	Death_Claw	753	October 24, 2007 08:28AM
We are stifling ID research??? -nt-	infi	639	October 24, 2007 08:30AM
So ellaborate how that isn't correct. You know like, cite a source. n/t	Death_Claw	841	October 24, 2007 08:31AM
Sorry, that is not how it works. It is you who is claiming something(nt)	Cenatar	913	October 24, 2007 08:34AM
No. You are the one that made the initial claim.	Pro	861	October 24, 2007 08:38AM
Grammar, Pro, grammar.	DurNominator	956	October 24, 2007 10:12AM
So we attack the man to refute his stance.	Pro	792	October 24, 2007 11:17AM
It is however a perfect example of what DC and I are talking about.	Pro	847	October 24, 2007 11:21AM
It might have been off topic	DurNominator	805	October 24, 2007 11:49AM
If I consistanty did mix you're and your.	Pro	920	October 24, 2007 04:05PM
He said Stein was full of shit. What's he basing that on? Gut instinct? n/t	Death_Claw	852	October 24, 2007 08:45AM
Opinion, just like Ben Steins.	Cenatar	877	October 24, 2007 08:51AM
You people make me laugh. n/t	Death_Claw	1513	October 24, 2007 08:53AM
The burden of proof is on him (or you)	infi	793	October 24, 2007 08:37AM
Right, take your word for it, I gotcha. In other words you've got nothin. n/t	Death_Claw	919	October 24, 2007 08:45AM
The thing is, the Creationists have got nothing.	DurNominator	1029	October 24, 2007 09:57AM
Then pit the two together.	Pro	965	October 25, 2007 06:59AM
I haven't heard anything that is obviously wrong.	Pro	960	October 24, 2007 08:36AM
That is just hilarious.	Cenatar	832	October 24, 2007 08:46AM
At the very least ID identifies areas of complexity that need exploration.	Death_Claw	854	October 24, 2007 08:49AM
Again, incorrect.	Cenatar	897	October 24, 2007 08:53AM
You really don't know how to read.	Death_Claw	819	October 24, 2007 09:18AM
bullshit	infi	895	October 24, 2007 09:25AM
Thankfully you don't represent the scientific community. n/t	Death_Claw	838	October 24, 2007 09:32AM
I represent the scientific community on a daily basis.	infi	829	October 24, 2007 09:35AM
What do you do? n/t	Death_Claw	823	October 24, 2007 11:03AM
Hah, you're a teacher. Well that explains a thing or two.	Death_Claw	767	October 24, 2007 11:08AM
He get's his orders from the text book and ideas from the	Pro	871	October 24, 2007 11:15AM
I am a biochemistry student at a University level.	Istirith	863	October 27, 2007 06:50AM
Just to clarify (disclaimer)..	Istirith	853	October 27, 2007 06:56AM
Re: You really don't know how to read.	Cenatar	1009	October 24, 2007 09:31AM
His point is that bias against ID excludes them from grants & papers. n/t	Death_Claw	831	October 24, 2007 09:33AM
And you just believe that?	Cenatar	837	October 24, 2007 09:35AM
WHy don't they publish their own journal? -nt- =)	infi	996	October 24, 2007 09:36AM
Because they can't get the funding god damn it.	Pro	847	October 24, 2007 11:34AM
How ironic.	MorsGotha	912	October 24, 2007 11:39AM
Are you saying that...	Cenatar	879	October 24, 2007 11:47AM
Kozjabozja n/t	Uli	783	October 24, 2007 12:34PM
Tell me one thing	DurNominator	854	October 24, 2007 12:19PM
I don't know.	Pro	865	October 24, 2007 05:14PM
Re: I don't know.	DurNominator	984	October 25, 2007 01:46AM
How many times must it be said?	Pro	917	October 25, 2007 10:41AM
The crux of the problem	DurNominator	1441	October 25, 2007 09:37PM
I didn't say I believed him.	Death_Claw	822	October 24, 2007 11:15AM
The bias against ID is the exact same as the bias against alchemy. NT	MorsGotha	860	October 24, 2007 09:48AM
Good thing Alchemists over came that.	Pro	876	October 24, 2007 11:16AM
ID papers are excluded because the peers who reviewed them thought	DurNominator	809	October 24, 2007 10:20AM
it's not a theory	infi	813	October 24, 2007 10:22AM
Theories are ideas that can be tested or	Pro	805	October 24, 2007 11:13AM
I've never read of anything that	Pro	812	October 24, 2007 11:12AM
The outside guidance is not a requirement.	DurNominator	901	October 24, 2007 11:37AM
I make cookies out of flour and sugar because that's what's needed.	Pro	855	October 25, 2007 06:53AM
Science built itself a strong foundation...	infi	736	October 24, 2007 08:50AM
Swticharoo.	Pro	943	October 24, 2007 11:28AM
I like your wording. Pretty much in line with what Ben was saying.	Pro	860	October 24, 2007 11:32AM
Plenty of people with credentials are (ideologically speaking) idiots.	mc_no_u	808	October 25, 2007 04:36PM
Don't you get it, Pro?	Odrirg	942	October 24, 2007 04:47AM
Sir?	Cenatar	880	October 24, 2007 06:49AM
I wouldn't have a problem....	Odrirg	778	October 24, 2007 07:08AM
Incorrect	Cenatar	902	October 24, 2007 07:19AM
As a high school physics teacher teaching biology	infi	846	October 24, 2007 07:38AM
The ultimate irony	infi	799	October 24, 2007 08:59AM
Once again proving the "evolution fanboys" are nutty. n/t	Death_Claw	824	October 24, 2007 09:34AM
Good argument. You clearly show you know how science works in this thread(nt)	Cenatar	1006	October 24, 2007 09:38AM
I may be off here, but what I think he i saying is that.	Pro	902	October 24, 2007 10:27AM
Yeah.	Death_Claw	803	October 24, 2007 11:03AM
Although...	MorsGotha	879	October 24, 2007 11:15AM
Re: Although...	Death_Claw	989	October 24, 2007 11:17AM
Re: Although...	MorsGotha	870	October 24, 2007 11:25AM
What're you blathering about?	Death_Claw	856	October 24, 2007 11:30AM
I was quite clear. nt	MorsGotha	781	October 24, 2007 11:31AM
Right, keep fighting your straw man. n/t	Death_Claw	970	October 24, 2007 11:41AM
A straw man is easy to refute. You have not even tried yet. nt	MorsGotha	843	October 24, 2007 11:52AM
Ok. That wasn't me in the post above refuting your point or anything. n/t	Death_Claw	802	October 24, 2007 11:53AM
Bear in mind Ben Stein says specifically he doesn't believe in ID.	Death_Claw	753	October 24, 2007 11:27AM
Re: Bear in mind Ben Stein says specifically he doesn't believe in ID.	MorsGotha	773	October 24, 2007 11:31AM
What do you mean?	Cenatar	821	October 24, 2007 11:39AM
So you track scientists like many people do Politicians?	Pro	868	October 25, 2007 06:50AM
What?	Cenatar	823	October 25, 2007 10:33AM
I'm not the one who has the onus to prove anything.	Pro	846	October 25, 2007 06:32PM
Actually I am an theory of gravity fanboy. It explains stuff. ID doesn't. NT	MorsGotha	829	October 24, 2007 09:59AM
What does that have to do with this thread?	Death_Claw	917	October 24, 2007 11:12AM
Bullshit again.	Cenatar	775	October 24, 2007 11:42AM
Have you watched the movie? Last I heard it wasn't out yet. n/t	Death_Claw	913	October 24, 2007 11:44AM
I've watched the trailer and interviews. It is pretty open with its views(nt)	Cenatar	770	October 24, 2007 11:45AM
A question or two for Pro and Death Claw	Cenatar	774	October 24, 2007 11:30AM
What does the Onion have to do with this?	Death_Claw	1012	October 24, 2007 11:39AM
So you are saying you don't know what ID is?	Cenatar	898	October 24, 2007 11:44AM
That's the point.	Death_Claw	845	October 24, 2007 11:51AM
In your humble opinion, Is ID science? nt	MorsGotha	759	October 24, 2007 11:53AM
Wow. Whoosh. Right over your head. n/t	Death_Claw	875	October 24, 2007 11:54AM
Actually, he has a point. Do you think ID is science?(nt)	Cenatar	858	October 24, 2007 11:56AM
On the contrary, this is the very heart of the problem...	MorsGotha	737	October 24, 2007 11:56AM
No it doesn't.	Death_Claw	707	October 24, 2007 12:01PM
A good exercise in rationality:	MorsGotha	823	October 24, 2007 12:06PM
But I am free to choose whether I want to fund your research or not.	DurNominator	763	October 24, 2007 12:06PM
Therein lies my point. It should be up to the people who pay for it.	Death_Claw	797	October 24, 2007 12:21PM
Who do you think is the most competent party to make the funding decisions?	DurNominator	728	October 24, 2007 12:27PM
You don't see a problem with an unelected minority spending public dollars?	Death_Claw	708	October 24, 2007 12:31PM
The people do control where their money goes.	DurNominator	829	October 24, 2007 12:46PM
Right, and Stein is suggesting that process isn't working correctly. n/t	Death_Claw	1458	October 24, 2007 12:49PM
Does Stein has something that he considers as a better idea? nt	DurNominator	841	October 24, 2007 01:10PM
I guess we should wait to see the movie. n/t	Death_Claw	869	October 24, 2007 01:11PM
It is not about money,	Cenatar	816	October 24, 2007 12:49PM
I don't like the way our education system does things.	Death_Claw	901	October 24, 2007 12:58PM
Re: I don't like the way our education system does things.	Cenatar	909	October 24, 2007 01:05PM
Way to miss the point. Heheh. Read my post again.	Death_Claw	790	October 24, 2007 01:10PM
Let me try that again in English.	Death_Claw	884	October 24, 2007 01:14PM
Re: Way to miss the point. Heheh. Read my post again.	Cenatar	862	October 24, 2007 01:15PM
A school course is not some predefined static thing.	Death_Claw	889	October 24, 2007 01:25PM
Ah, ok.	Cenatar	832	October 24, 2007 01:41PM
That's an internally inconsistent statement. n/t	Death_Claw	831	October 24, 2007 02:36PM
Both ethics and gymnastics have place in the educational system.	DurNominator	869	October 24, 2007 01:20PM
Ultimately that is your opinion.	Death_Claw	805	October 24, 2007 01:32PM
I sort of summed up all sports into gymnastics.	DurNominator	846	October 24, 2007 02:17PM
Whoosh. n/t	Death_Claw	935	October 24, 2007 02:37PM
Actually	Cenatar	863	October 24, 2007 12:11PM
Great, we've come to an agreement.	Death_Claw	818	October 24, 2007 12:24PM
Then again	Cenatar	887	October 24, 2007 12:29PM
In your humble opinion, Is ID science? nt	MorsGotha	842	October 24, 2007 11:46AM
I don't care if it's science or not.	Pro	1000	October 25, 2007 06:41PM
I'm just curious..	Istirith	877	October 25, 2007 07:18PM
My only real problem with this debate is the participants	ExPaladin	851	October 25, 2007 02:20AM
Re: My only real problem with this debate is the participants	Death_Claw	930	October 25, 2007 03:43AM
Re: My only real problem with this debate is the participants	Istirith	851	October 27, 2007 04:31PM
Some points to raise on Stein...	Istirith	812	October 25, 2007 03:26PM
Also, I'd be interested to see this movie.	Istirith	916	October 25, 2007 03:41PM

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