Ive done 6-7 Hell trips off and on with no real pattern or goal in mind....about equal failed trips.

-First few trips were alright, but I was basically just a defense mule for the group I was with. I never got to properly take in or map out anything. "Pick up this." "Walk north". "Rescue this" amid lots of long fights with interesting mobs. Later finding out whoi played most of the leaders of these groups was interesting. 75% Imm chars. I didnt actually mind these trips becuase at least there was some semblence of 'exploration'.

-Then came the few trips I found were extremely boring. Waiting for certain items to repop, twiddling my fingers, watching as some people had to log off one by one....to watch 4-5 hours of work go down the drain. Frustrating, yes.

-During my last year of CF, I was asked to join groups. Probably led by yourself. It was even less enjoyable for me, as it was clearly just a grab a few choice pieces and move on. Little to no interaction. Zero attempt to try to take on mobs that have never been bested, or move past areas that are deemed unsafe....

I would welcome any opportunity to do some actual slow exploration, and mob besting.....but with player base as is, and the requirements needed to kill the big ones, its near impossible to arrange.

There is no way you can do Hell without some kind of OOC involvement. Just given the time involvement, you need to coordinate efforts just to log on or log off together...for starters.

I totally agree with all your comments. (Though keep in mind, when I have been with you on a hell trip, it was quite clear you were not doing anything other than rushing to grab some items. Can't recall char names but a bard who was with us wanted to see a few things, and was basically just ordered to sit still and be led.) Its not so much that people are disagreeing with your assessment of Hell trips....its that your actions in the past have leaned more towards powergaming instead of sportmanship....

ANyhow....I rant. You are right about hell.