Really interesting take.

Jib
August 25, 2017 11:36AM
Quote
starbright
Bannon recommends an all-out economic war with China.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but keep in mind that Bannon is renowned for being a brilliant media strategist. Take that for what you will. He'll say things like in this article:
Quote

"We’re at economic war with China ... It’s in all their literature. They’re not shy about saying what they’re doing. One of us is going to be a hegemon in 25 or 30 years and it’s gonna be them if we go down this path."
Some of this is hyperbole to get folks worked up; notice how it is conditional, to plant a seed, and also, that it is precluding one or the other ("one of us"). What I mean is, he's not simply saying, "China will be a hegemon in 25 or 30 years. Period." Note the difference. My following arguments need to keep that in mind.

Quote
starbright
An all-out economic war between A and B make both A and B losers, and makes C to Z winners (which is why Russians like Kstatida will strongly support it!). People in the USA and in China will have to take economic damage in exchange for prolonging American hegemony. I think you could plausibly delay Chinese hegemony by some years, maybe move it from 30 years in the future to 40 years in the future, with unilateral economic sanctions, but at the same time the USA will also suffer.

The Chinese economy is almost completely dependent on exporting cheap goods and labor. They have a long way to go if they expect to become the sole hegemon without relying on the economies of Western nations. Not to mention in 30-40 years they'll hit a population and labor bottleneck where the masses of labor and producers will become dependent on resources, and likely overwhelm production, in lieu of other means to replace it. There are also many social and political issues they'll have to resolve to get there as well. I'm not convinced China's ultimate hegemony is an inevitable conclusion like you appear to assume.

Quote
starbright
I don't think the electorate as it stands today has this kind of appetite. Most voters care about their bread-and-butter, their jobs and their comfortable lives. To ask them to sacrifice their comforts in exchange for some vague notion of a prolonged American dominance is difficult. You'd have to actively lie to them and twist their minds with propaganda, and make them believe that China is out to kill them: this is a dangerous policy and can conceivably lead a democratic society on the path to initiating war against a non-aggressor target.
Why would you have to lie? Why do we have to be convinced that China is out to kill us? I'm genuinely curious why you would think these are the only means to this end.

Quote
starbright
For reference, China isn't out to kill USA. They're out to slowly supplant the USA as the dominant economic player on the planet. Militarily, I don't see them trying to replace US security guarantees. They benefited strongly from US-provided maritime trade routes and security, they're happy to let the US continue to be policeman, as long as the police stay out of their backyard (East Asia). This is more or less the same as Russian policy towards USA. The only difference is that Russia is not a credible challenger for hegemon status, but China is. In that sense Bannon is correct to focus on China.
I pretty much agree.

Quote
starbright
The really big disparity between China and the USA is human resources. China have more people, and their people are better.
Whoah there. Their people are "better"? What does this even mean? Honestly, can you elaborate? Higher average IQ (okay, maybe)? "Better" (edit:) without specifying why or how it is better(/edit) doesn't mean much. That said, the reason they have a much higher labor output per cost is that the average worker is paid literal pennies on the dollar of what laborers in western nations are paid. This won't last forever, if history is any indication. Also, to reiterate- at some point there will be a labor bottleneck which is going to be a problem for their competitive advantage, to say the least.

Quote
starbright
What should the USA do instead, if it wants to really be on top?

Quite simple: an all-round change in culture and society.

(0) Change the culture. The cycles of civilizations can be pithily summed up as: "Hard times make strong people. Strong people bring good times. Good times make weak people. Weak people bring hard times." Of course there is much more involved, but this is a valid point. Americans are softer and lazier than they used to be. How many of you can honestly say you worked as hard as the average Chinese student in school, or the average Chinese worker at work? You may pity the Chinese their hard lives, but those "hard times" they suffered made them strong people. Hard work and discipline makes you happy, and gives you the capacity to achieve your goals. A happy and healthy society must revolve around a solid work ethic.

I'm actually doubtful that a democratic country can achieve a shift towards a more austere, hard-working culture. You'd probably need a war or something to unlock that famed steel that lies underneath the softness covering the modern American. No one is going to give the USA a war though, that would be stupid and suicidal on their part. The USA is like a giant tiger that's eaten its fill and is going to take a nap: why poke it?
I agree Chinese culture in general tends to hold education in higher importance than in American culture. However, I would say I worked harder than most in school; though there is no way I could know that objectively, so yeah.

And I think it is a very poor stereotype that Americans are "soft".

Quote
starbright

(1) Raise the birth rate, especially of productive and contributing members of society. For various reasons, probably including genetics but certainly including upbringing, children of productive families have lower criminality, higher income, all the good things. You want to target a population of 600m, get close to half of China's. The rest of the shortfall can be made up with USA's vastly superior natural resources and geographical location.

(2) More immigration of talented migrants. This was the USA's secret weapon. Being anti-immigration is throwing away your secret sauce. The USA is an immigrant society, built primarily from migrants from Europe (white migrants). European migrants have integrated seamlessly into American society. You don't call yourselves German-Americans and Irish-Americans. You're all Americans. But this isn't often the case for non-white migrants.
(1) I'm not convinced is a very great solution. (2) I agree. In fact, the current administration is trying to do just this.

Quote
starbright
2 (a) Become more welcoming to non-white talent. Talent happens in all populations, non-white as well as white. Welcome all talented migrants even if they're purple, or orangutans. As a talented non-white person myself, the disadvantages associated with being a minority are a significant barrier to my considering moving to the USA, and this is true for all talented migrants. Talented migrants live where they like, where they are welcome. They don't have to take shit from people. Being unwelcoming to other races means that talented non-white migrants won't come, but the untalented ones are desperate and don't give a shit. So you're skewing the migrant population towards being poor and uneducated. And this further raises racist and xenophobic tensions.
Again, the current administration is trying to do this-- welcome talent of any race. The operative word is "talent", not "race".

Quote
starbright
Some of you may claim that non-white migrants will still move to the USA because they don't have better alternatives: this is true only for certain non-white populations (I'm thinking Black, Hispanic, and probably South Asian) which do not have a reasonably-developed country to move to, in which they look similar to the racial majority, and whose language and customs they can easily adopt. East Asians can choose between Japan (if they can handle language/culture), Korea, tier-1 coastal cities in China, or Hong Kong or Singapore. South Asians can expect fairly decent (but still minority-status) treatment in Singapore, and I believe the UAE cities Dubai and Abu Dhabi are havens for talented South Asian expatriates where they have some degree of racial privilege.

2 (b) Related to the economic rivalry with China: become more welcoming to Chinese migrants. They are, on average, one of the most talented immigrant groups in the USA. Having to deal with discrimination and laws which make it hard for them to remain there drives many of them back to China. I personally know highly-skilled Chinese engineers and scientists who have gone back to work in tech companies in China (think Alibaba, Baidu, etc.) primarily because of the discrimination. If you can steal these highly talented people away from China, rather than driving them back to China, you can make huge gains in the economic rivalry.

Interesting indeed. I work in tech in California, and don't see literally any discrimination toward Chinese, Indian, etc. Not once in 17 years that I can remember. In fact, they are sometimes highly sought after by tech employers.

Quote
starbright
Nation != Race. If you are a committed nationalist and want the USA to be the best nation it can be, you have to be race-blind. Every race has good and bad people. The best nation is inevitably one that steals good people from everyone and keeps out the bad.

The question is: can the American electorate swallow their pride and become better, less-racist people? I'm not confident that this can happen. So probably it is inevitable that China will win on the human resources front (larger population).
In general, Americans aren't racist. It is apparent that the media will make you think that we are though.

Quote
starbright
Notice that you have the option between (1) and (2). If it's (1), then make sure that educated, productive _white_ people are reproducing more, and talented overseas white migrants are brought in and turned into Americans. If the USA is a white country, and this is core to its identity and configuration, then you have no choice. You need more white people.
Option (2) sounds pretty reasonable to me. (1) will never, ever even come close to gaining traction here in the US, believe me.

Quote
starbright
Some cynics might argue that the "racial minority tax" (the disadvantages of being a minority) will never be resolved. I'm almost inclined to agree with them, because I've not seen a society which has resolved it. If you strongly believe that the only solution is to go all-out white, then so be it. Keep the USA white. I guess this is the viewpoint of many on the white-nationalist right.
Honestly, there's like, so few people on the white-nationalist right. Seriously, I've never even met anyone who thinks like this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2017 12:13PM by Jib.
Subject Author Posted

As a side note

Kstatida August 15, 2017 12:48AM

How has no one commented on hilarious this video is?

Stevers August 17, 2017 08:07PM

Ukraine started in 2013 with Lenin's statues toppling

Kstatida August 18, 2017 02:01AM

It hasn't ended yet you commie bastard.

Rhyaldrin August 25, 2017 01:23AM

Jews don't gank

Kstatida August 25, 2017 01:57AM

You've said before there is no such thing as Ukraine.

Frosty August 18, 2017 03:02AM

I'll take it with a grain of salt (n/t)

Kstatida August 18, 2017 03:08AM

Southern Poverty Law Center credits the removal of the Confederate flag from the capitol of SC to the re-emergence of the KKK

PaulO August 17, 2017 10:37AM

Not following this thread, but just FYI, I wouldn't trust a single word coming from the SPLC. (n/t)

saagkri August 17, 2017 12:22PM

And why not? (n/t)

alansmithee August 17, 2017 12:43PM

D. James Kennedy Ministries Sues SPLC over Hate Map

PaulO August 25, 2017 05:37AM

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/aug/17/hate-g roup-map-lists-mainstream-conservative-organ/

PaulO August 22, 2017 03:14AM

They're crooked race pimps who try to paint a variety of conservative movements as "racist".

Rhyaldrin August 17, 2017 02:22PM

One of the reasons I'm a huge fan of Steve Bannon

Kstatida August 18, 2017 02:11AM

I agree with pretty much everything Bannon says in that article. (n/t)

PaulO August 18, 2017 03:47AM

Smart guy, no doubt. I offer a point of disagreement and some proposed solutions

starbright August 24, 2017 12:32AM

Really interesting take.

Jib August 25, 2017 11:36AM

Re: Really interesting take.

sleepy August 26, 2017 10:27PM

In what sense? nt

istirith August 27, 2017 12:47PM

Re: In what sense? nt

sleepy August 28, 2017 07:46PM

Fair enough.. But one thing that needs to be put to rest is...

istirith August 29, 2017 09:10AM

Yes, I think this is good

starbright August 29, 2017 10:05AM

The whole "White trash America voted in Trump hyuk hyuk"

istirith August 29, 2017 11:40AM

I am convinced that there is broad agreement on really important issues

starbright August 29, 2017 11:55PM

Essentially.. "'Wealth of Nations' the post"..

istirith August 30, 2017 06:46AM

You can't do anything about lobbyists, those with wealth and power will always try to influence government

Kstatida August 30, 2017 12:59AM

Perfect point

Kstatida August 29, 2017 09:29AM

Maybe you are familiar but one Russian Oligarch..

istirith August 29, 2017 12:01PM

I can tell you a hundred of similar stories

Kstatida August 29, 2017 12:05PM

We want to hear them! MORE BLOOD! MORE BLOOD! MORE BLOOD! (n/t)

starbright August 29, 2017 11:56PM

Re: We want to hear them! MORE BLOOD! MORE BLOOD! MORE BLOOD!

Kstatida August 30, 2017 01:57AM

Wikipedia doesn't mention the corpses :-( (n/t)

starbright August 30, 2017 10:07AM

Oh it never does

Kstatida August 30, 2017 11:27AM

Sorry, I realize my argument may be tailored to someone with my specific experiences. I explain more:

starbright August 25, 2017 02:03PM

Well said (n/t)

Quas August 25, 2017 09:42PM

Re: Sorry, I realize my argument may be tailored to someone with my specific experiences. I explain more:

istirith August 25, 2017 09:25PM

Sounds plausible, and this is a relative strength of the US: its relatively less-bad ability to attract talent of any culture/colour

starbright August 26, 2017 12:34AM

I say it doesn't happen

Kstatida August 26, 2017 12:39AM

Re: Sorry, I realize my argument may be tailored to someone with my specific experiences. I explain more:

Kstatida August 26, 2017 12:06AM

No worries, having to explain more your assumptions makes for better discussion.

Jib August 25, 2017 03:17PM

Re: being bullish on China

starbright August 26, 2017 01:39AM

I would estimate most of this as correct analysis

Kstatida August 26, 2017 03:16AM

What's your view on Xi's political changes? I hear some grumblings from Chinese friends about the increased authoritarianism (n/t)

starbright August 26, 2017 04:48AM

I'm not an expert on chinese politics, but this here sounds like major political shift

Kstatida August 26, 2017 05:45AM

Damn, I had no clue.

MiyagiYojimbo August 26, 2017 09:59AM

Holy shit!

Kstatida August 26, 2017 10:21AM

Re: Damn, I had no clue.

istirith August 26, 2017 10:12AM

I'm already starting to see the affects of this in America.

MiyagiYojimbo August 26, 2017 10:32AM

Every time I see the first part of this, I'm reminded of how much they honor the dead. (n/t)

MiyagiYojimbo August 26, 2017 10:25AM

Some quick clarifications

PaulO August 24, 2017 03:42AM

We're mostly in agreement here, just two points

starbright August 24, 2017 03:57AM

Re: We're mostly in agreement here, just two points

PaulO August 24, 2017 05:39AM

Yeah, I don't disagree.

starbright August 24, 2017 09:14AM

Brilliant

Kstatida August 24, 2017 03:06AM

Thanks: addressing your points here

starbright August 24, 2017 03:51AM

I see where you're coming from. Re: management.

Jib August 25, 2017 08:23PM

I don't think he expects anything: he's just rationally selecting the choice which works out better for him

starbright August 26, 2017 12:41AM

Re: I see where you're coming from. Re: management.

istirith August 25, 2017 09:17PM

We're in agreement here

Kstatida August 24, 2017 04:24AM

Heh, I can totally empathize

starbright August 24, 2017 05:02AM

Also regarding human capital

Kstatida August 24, 2017 03:42AM

Yeah, bring the real productive jobs back. Production makes strong men/women (n/t)

starbright August 24, 2017 05:08AM

One other factor..

istirith August 24, 2017 03:47AM

This

Kstatida August 24, 2017 03:56AM

Actually, ironically..

istirith August 24, 2017 03:59AM

Re: Actually, ironically..

PaulO August 24, 2017 04:14PM

We'll be in recession in less than 5 years.

istirith August 24, 2017 09:15PM

Correct me if I'm wrong

Kstatida August 24, 2017 11:51PM

Under normal circumstances this would be correct..

istirith August 25, 2017 09:46AM

Sounds like good basis for deflation scenery to me

Kstatida August 25, 2017 11:06AM

Definitely.

istirith August 25, 2017 11:52AM

Lol check this out

Kstatida August 26, 2017 12:20PM

I don't think people are going to click your links much at all anymore. n/t

Frosty August 26, 2017 01:38PM

Not my problem you don't speak Chinese, fella

Kstatida August 26, 2017 10:12PM

I'd love to claim to be fully fluent, but I can't :-p It's a hard language even for natives, much less as a second language (n/t)

starbright August 26, 2017 11:39PM

Bah

Kstatida August 27, 2017 12:55AM

Ah no worries: I should go and read it in Chinese, polish the rusty language skills a bit! (n/t)

starbright August 27, 2017 01:23AM

I'm done expecting anything from you. (n/t)

Frosty August 26, 2017 10:29PM

You break my heart

Kstatida August 26, 2017 10:46PM

Re: You break my heart

MiyagiYojimbo August 26, 2017 11:28PM

GD right. Cold as ice, and willing to sacrifice your love. (n/t)

Frosty August 27, 2017 04:27AM

Do you think people click your links?

Matrik August 26, 2017 04:53PM

Don't know, don't care. Explination inside.

Frosty August 26, 2017 08:17PM

Walking on shaky ground here b/c I'm not quite an expert

Kstatida August 24, 2017 04:11AM

Well..

istirith August 24, 2017 04:18AM

Considering Quantitative Easening and major USD reserves of China/Japan

Kstatida August 24, 2017 04:34AM

Also U.S. treasuries international demand

Kstatida August 24, 2017 04:50AM

The SNB is a major investor in US Equities.

istirith August 24, 2017 10:54AM

Norway is interesting

Kstatida August 24, 2017 12:14PM

Have to say though..

istirith August 24, 2017 03:33AM

Most likely

Kstatida August 24, 2017 03:47AM

If you are talking about trade flows..

istirith August 24, 2017 03:54AM

You only forgot a built in nationalist caste where military service makes you a full citizen (n/t)

demos August 24, 2017 02:38AM

The dude is smart, like real smart

Kstatida August 18, 2017 04:14AM

Heh

Kstatida August 18, 2017 10:14AM

Goodnight sweet prince..

istirith August 18, 2017 10:34AM

I'm literally shaking. (n/t)

Rhyaldrin August 18, 2017 12:57PM

A king is made by his retinue

Kstatida August 18, 2017 10:57AM

I could be wrong..

istirith August 18, 2017 11:10AM

As another side note

Kstatida August 22, 2017 03:35AM

that was the whole point of him leaving

jalim August 22, 2017 03:40AM

Oh right

Kstatida August 22, 2017 05:50AM

Holy Molly

Kstatida August 18, 2017 11:57AM

Yeah, me too. Take it with a huge grain of salt. (n/t)

PaulO August 17, 2017 12:36PM

This is stupid. The statue is clearly being taken down so that it may be repurposed into a road for modern confederates to drive on. The south will ride again! n/t

Stevers August 17, 2017 07:28AM

The ignorance of a certain, trollish subset of this community has essentially ruined any desire to interact with any of you. Gabe, delete this motherfucker.

Sam August 16, 2017 04:07PM

Naw, man..

Jib August 17, 2017 12:58AM

*tips fedora* (n/t)

Rhyaldrin August 17, 2017 01:03AM

Hello, Sam

Kstatida August 16, 2017 09:46PM

You gotta drop me a line dude. C'mon. (n/t)

Frosty August 16, 2017 07:12PM

It's no use.

MiyagiYojimbo August 16, 2017 09:10PM

It's never any use, and I am disappointed with how this forum has handled Sam posting.

Stevers August 17, 2017 07:26AM

I love your anteater. nt

Flipside Oreo August 17, 2017 09:33AM

I was going to correct your spelling

Kstatida August 16, 2017 09:46PM

Are you sure you aren't the common denominator?

jalim August 16, 2017 04:20PM

Didn't you already rage quit all the forums like months ago?

Rhyaldrin August 16, 2017 04:19PM

And so the chaos spreads.

Flipside Oreo August 16, 2017 01:02PM

Take this advice. (n/t)

MiyagiYojimbo August 16, 2017 05:23PM

Meanwhile in Europe..

istirith August 16, 2017 03:41AM

That much is true

Kstatida August 16, 2017 10:44AM

any specific info in there that was relevant? nt

Flipside Oreo August 16, 2017 01:16PM

The second book

Kstatida August 16, 2017 09:44PM

Ah, sounds interesting

Flipside Oreo August 17, 2017 12:45AM

For sure.

istirith August 16, 2017 12:25PM

Leftists are not humans.

Rhyaldrin August 15, 2017 09:04PM

Pinochet wasn't right, he was lying. You can tell because his nose grows every time he tells a lie. This is a classic old tale, have you never heard of it? Look up Disney's Pinochet. Spoiler: Gestapo is the best char in the story n/t

Stevers August 17, 2017 07:30AM

You are a fucking idiot.

kadsuane August 16, 2017 11:44AM

you better go practice the fly spell in the cuck guild.

Rhyaldrin August 16, 2017 12:01PM

Ooooh internet tough guy over here.

kadsuane August 17, 2017 04:17AM

You're such a k-b. (n/t)

Rhyaldrin August 17, 2017 02:24PM

Keep egging him on. I want to see him try to fly a helicopter. :) (n/t)

Frosty August 17, 2017 11:36AM

Believe it or not, I know how to fly one.

Matrik August 17, 2017 12:14PM

Have you seen this halfling? Last seen flying over Mogadishu. nt

istirith August 17, 2017 09:00PM

Believe it or not, I believe you. (n/t)

Frosty August 17, 2017 03:12PM

I don't. Matrik thinks he can do anything and everything better than everyone. n/t

Stevers August 17, 2017 08:00PM

Not my fault your mechanic broke it. (n/t)

Matrik August 18, 2017 05:01AM

You're fucking savage dude. ;) (n/t)

Frosty August 16, 2017 02:08PM

That video made me sick.

Matrik August 15, 2017 11:47AM

He's not much of a fighting man if he can't even handle a couple of fat turds and man-girls. n/t

Stevers August 17, 2017 07:32AM

Re: That video made me sick.

Jib August 15, 2017 08:19PM

The losers in the American civil war were not patriots. Literally the opposite. (n/t)

Jib August 15, 2017 07:42AM

That definition makes them literally patriots.

Matrik August 15, 2017 11:43AM

It really does suck that so much of the best and brightest and bravest of the losing side were lost in the war.

Jib August 15, 2017 08:17PM

Yeah, exactly what I'm talking about :) (n/t)

Kstatida August 15, 2017 08:35AM



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