This is rather interesting

May 01, 2017 04:34PM
Bartle first explores the differences between "game", "simulation", "sport", "hobby", etc. He concludes that virtual worlds are not games per se, but they are "places". Places where you can conduct game-like activities. Sort of like Las Vegas where you can play poker, but Las Vegas is not a game; it's a place.

"When you play a game and you know the rules and something happens within those rules, you just have to accept it. You may not like it that the other team scored the touchdown, but you knew it was a possibility. All you can do is try harder. This would be a fine analogy if virtual worlds were games. They're not, though: They're places. Some activities may be game-like, but not everything is. When players treat non-game behavior like it was a game, this can have a nasty impact on other people in real life.

In normal computer games, you can do anything that the code allows you to. This is not an attitude that extends to virtual worlds, though. Most of the time it's a good rule of thumb, but sometimes the virtual world lets you do things that you shouldn't. As a trivial example, they aren't coded to prevent your saying things that in real life would constitute verbal abuse."

He further says that, basically, it's okay to do things that the virtual world is "about". In Carrion Fields' instance, the game is about killing, so you can expect that your character be killed and if you feel emotional trauma over it, it's your problem and not the world's because you were warned that this is a major aspect of the world.

So in this, Bartle's work supports your theory. CF's very design boasts "actual setbacks when you die" and "real villains that can win" (sorry, I don't remember the precise wording) so guess what, the game is about harsh struggle and thus we should agree to not let being killed/full-looted affect our emotions.

I would still argue, though, that not full looting doesn't necessarily mean breach of RP for "sportsmanship". Given the peculiarities of how death works in CF, I may want my enemy to actually get back on his feet faster, so he'd fight me again and get killed more often.
Subject Author Posted

The Player's Responsibility

Matrik May 01, 2017 12:20PM

Jesus christ you're pathetic

Java May 01, 2017 01:33PM

It's performance art. Like Infowars. nt

Isildur(VIP) May 01, 2017 02:35PM

Not he isn't playing. He's banned and he's got principles about circumventing his ban.

Murphy May 01, 2017 01:35PM

Jave. Same as he ever was.

Matrik May 01, 2017 01:35PM

Oddly enough, the top 20 muds do not have univeral full-loot policies.

Quixotic May 01, 2017 01:00PM

Carrion Fields doesn't belong in the top 20.

Matrik May 01, 2017 01:10PM

Brilliant. Attract new players by doing what doesn't work.

Quixotic May 01, 2017 01:28PM

I think his idea is that he wants to attract players of only the right mindset. Sort of like you don't get mad if you die in Quake, right? (n/t)

Murphy May 01, 2017 01:32PM

Except he skipped the "attract players" part. How do we get them to show up? nt

Java May 01, 2017 01:35PM

I've no idea! That's where he and I disagree!

Murphy May 01, 2017 01:41PM

Decreases the gap.

Matrik May 01, 2017 01:44PM

Oh and one other thing..

Java May 01, 2017 09:02PM

They don't anyway in our current CF where you loot 1-2 things. NT

Sam May 01, 2017 09:10PM

So does full looting everyone make that problem better or worse? nt

Java May 01, 2017 09:16PM

Honestly, both. Would make it worse in the short term, but better in the long term. NT

Sam May 01, 2017 09:33PM

Bingo (n/t)

Matrik May 02, 2017 06:25AM

Except Frosty already argued against this point

Java May 01, 2017 09:00PM

Point to a nonvet.

Matrik May 02, 2017 06:27AM

Shaapa has proven nothing.

Murphy May 01, 2017 01:50PM

No interest in that. More interested in getting current players to play.

Matrik May 01, 2017 01:41PM

My idea does not generate grief. It eliminates it.

Matrik May 01, 2017 01:31PM

My complaint: Dumbass players that think making everyone else miserable makes the game better. How do I fix it? nt

Java May 01, 2017 01:34PM

Easy. Full loot them and full sac them.

Matrik May 01, 2017 01:42PM

Easy? It's not easy. PKing is not easy, alright?

Murphy May 01, 2017 01:45PM

Also, Java was referring to me. I'm not hard to kill. At all. (n/t)

Matrik May 01, 2017 01:49PM

I have never killed any of your characters. (n/t)

Murphy May 01, 2017 01:56PM

You might be surprised.

Matrik May 01, 2017 01:57PM

Then play the loser with dignity.

Matrik May 01, 2017 01:48PM

Meh. Ain't a type of game I'm interested in playing.

Murphy May 01, 2017 01:55PM

I chuckled at "mature experience".

Murphy May 01, 2017 01:16PM

There is a perv in every crowd.

Matrik May 01, 2017 01:17PM

I can recommend you a few muds dedicated to that kind of experience.

Murphy May 01, 2017 01:24PM

re Stats

Quixotic May 01, 2017 01:35PM

I only know one mud that has full loot.

Matrik May 01, 2017 01:39PM

I bet Armageddon has full loot.

Murphy May 01, 2017 03:53PM

They are number 1 on mudstats.com.

Matrik May 01, 2017 01:25PM

Well I don't really want to "kill each other".

Murphy May 01, 2017 01:31PM

My most prolific character was not PK oriented. (n/t)

Matrik May 01, 2017 01:32PM

Yeah he had such great influence, I don't even know his name. (n/t)

Murphy May 01, 2017 01:34PM

I'm ok with that. It's a game Murphy. (n/t)

Matrik May 01, 2017 01:36PM

Re: It's a game.

Murphy May 01, 2017 03:40PM

Context required. (n/t)

Matrik May 01, 2017 03:53PM

"Designing virtual worlds" is the book's name.

Murphy May 01, 2017 03:58PM

What makes it not a game?

Matrik May 01, 2017 04:09PM

This is rather interesting

Murphy May 01, 2017 04:34PM

Is Bartle's stuff based on anything other than his opinion?

laearrist May 01, 2017 05:33PM

His early works were indeed conjectures from analysing forum discussions like the ones we're having here.

Murphy May 01, 2017 05:39PM

I'll have to check it out...

laearrist May 01, 2017 05:54PM

Yea... I wouldn't call that science...

laearrist May 01, 2017 06:19PM

Citations from the most recent thing I could find for him...

laearrist May 01, 2017 06:43PM

He's like the only one who tries to study the thing openly

Kstatida May 02, 2017 12:16AM

Lots of people study games. He just studies MUDs

laearrist May 02, 2017 02:25AM

All scientific work is opinion. Argumentation is what makes it science. (n/t)

Murphy May 02, 2017 02:29AM

Uh... No? Supporting evidence and useful predictions based on the model make it science. (n/t)

laearrist May 02, 2017 02:34AM

That's only true in order for research results to be called "scientific", not in case of science itself

Kstatida May 02, 2017 02:56AM

Well, a lot of work has obviously been put into it.

Murphy May 01, 2017 07:36PM

Interesting indeed. Thanks for the write up. (n/t)

Matrik May 01, 2017 04:47PM

You may be "okay with that", but it invalidates your argument.

Murphy May 01, 2017 01:59PM

Do they?

Matrik May 01, 2017 02:12PM

Re: Do they?

Murphy May 01, 2017 03:02PM

*thumbs up*

Matrik May 01, 2017 03:07PM

But I'm a softie. (n/t)

Murphy May 01, 2017 03:29PM

Sorry I killed you in a pk mud?

Telufial May 01, 2017 02:45PM

:)))))))))))))))))) (n/t)

Matrik May 01, 2017 02:53PM



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