Orc vs. Dagger Spec

September 04, 2013 05:25PM
This is a tough matchup to fully describe because d-elf STSF battle defender is way different to fight than arial maran dagger spec, but I'll outline the basics.

You'll want to be prepared, as usual, this means flight, a slave, prot. vs align if it matters, stoneskin (if you'll need it) and gear enough to ignore dagger spec strength loss.

Hamstring : You want to avoid it. This means getting first strike. As Shigru this is easy(ish), but harder without rush. The reason you want to avoid this especially is because you don't want them dodging you any more than they already will and I *think* there is a dex comparison aspect to dodge, so if your dex is in the toilet, they are going to chew through you with concealed.

I will open with grapple weapon in nearly every case vs. a dagger spec. In general anything that requires a weapon in their hand to beat you can be defeated by judicious use of grapple. Very few daggers are noremove, and fewer dagger specs will actually make use of them, so this is actually fairly easy. Rush + grapple will probably hurt you more than it hurts them, but even if they re-wield quickly you can heal and repeat. This is pretty well true for most engagements. This is a game of either running them out of daggers, getting a lucky blind off, or getting some lag out of a slave so you can bash before they rewield. Honestly, even with Light damage daggers, most dagger specs will go down in a heap without a mainhand dagger, and you can run them out of weapons before they can run you out of HP if you want to spend the blood. This idea is the origin of something Krunk referred to as "Blud cost". Nearly any fight is winnable as an orc, but if it costs you 15 bloody skins, it is a very high cost indeed.

The worst/best dagger spec I ever faced with Krunk was d-elf STSF battle defender dagger whip. He would use nodrop daggers and a shield to increase his resilience, even when blind. It only takes one flee to lose a slave, and with sneak I couldn't guarantee first strike, so he could get hamstring or hurl shoulder (causes bashes to miss a bit more) off and make Krunk flee/negate the slave. STSF charges quickly against the stupidity of an orc, so while I had to kill him quickly in order to avoid being essentially unable to touch him, he could drag the fight out. We had some epic battles. He was also smart enough to not entwine until the very end (and when I had lagged myself) so that he could seal the kill. Once he got me with entwine, Krunk finished him anyway and then promptly died to dagger spec bleeding shortly afterward. It was a very good fight.

Most dagger specs don't have that kind of staying power, however, and frankly most will lose a weapon or two and then panic or otherwise mess up and they become bash meat. Get the dagger out of mainhand wield, and bash away. Simple and effective.

RBW dagger spec takes some more fiiness as something like Caitlynn can eat through your HP with deathblows and concealed. This is more a grapple and run/fallback scenario and even then you are running at least some risk of losing the deathblow lottery. Light daggers are just another dagger for the most part. Sure it hurts more, but if they still have their dagger, you, the orc, have already fucked up.
Subject Author Posted

Orc Tips

laearrist September 04, 2013 06:22AM

Not bad, but Krunk is still not a comparison point of your success.

Jerrokrar September 04, 2013 10:39PM

WOAH!!!!! You've played an orc before with one adaptation!?!?!? No way!!!! (n/t)

NbM(VIP) September 05, 2013 04:03AM

Me too. Murgh didn't go too far in terms of levels, but was fun in lowbie PK.

DurNominator(VIP) September 05, 2013 08:25PM

I don't think you could do it. (n/t)

TripHitNdip September 04, 2013 10:53PM

Thanks for sharing.

Jerrokrar September 04, 2013 11:14PM

WOAH!!!! Thror gave out space between heartbeats as a reward?!?! Get out?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! (n/t)

NbM(VIP) September 05, 2013 04:00AM

Considering no warriors get 3rd and 4th legacies now...

Jerrokrar September 06, 2013 06:07AM

Wrong.

NbM(VIP) September 06, 2013 07:54AM

Was a huge fan of Gahdak. Shame there were so many other quality Battle guys at the time or you would have stood out more. NT

Sam September 06, 2013 09:48AM

Fire giant staff spec

Matrik September 06, 2013 08:48AM

I actually didn't take it

NbM(VIP) September 06, 2013 09:43AM

Yeah I was fine with storm giant tanking. A bit below 23 dex staff warrior human, but the resist made up for it. (n/t)

Matrik September 06, 2013 10:10AM

Lol, I'll just throw your Orc with 200 pk's into the same bag as all your Commander kills.

TripHitNdip September 04, 2013 11:21PM

Jerry has just trapped himself in a box

Quas September 05, 2013 05:27AM

Quick, put tape over all the holes! (n/t)

vladamir September 05, 2013 01:05PM

Thanks for sharing. Great tips. nt

Drokk September 04, 2013 12:07PM

Agreed. Rolling orc...now. n/t

Death_Claw September 05, 2013 09:52PM

Orc Adapts

laearrist September 04, 2013 07:34AM

Orc Gear

laearrist September 04, 2013 07:02AM

Orc Matchups

laearrist September 04, 2013 06:42AM

What about wizards, priests and rogues ?

frob October 02, 2016 02:13PM

Orc vs. Staff Wielding Ranger

laearrist September 04, 2013 05:52PM

Re: Orc vs. Staff Wielding Ranger

zoskia September 04, 2013 06:08PM

Re: Orc vs. Staff Wielding Ranger

laearrist September 04, 2013 06:20PM

Put another way...

laearrist September 04, 2013 06:37PM

I don't know orcs. Your strategy may be the best available, I don't know.

Matrik September 04, 2013 06:41PM

I don't see how you kill an orc out of the wilds with a ranger.

Death_Claw September 05, 2013 03:21AM

Considering your orc advice of "bash bash bash," it's your orc that will die the easiest to the out of wilds ranger.

Matrik September 05, 2013 07:11AM

You're confusing me with Quas. n/t

Death_Claw September 05, 2013 08:06AM

Perhaps. (n/t)

Matrik September 05, 2013 08:14AM

haste

Quas September 05, 2013 05:36AM

Wishful thinking.

Death_Claw September 05, 2013 07:23AM

You mean like this?

Matrik September 05, 2013 07:27AM

I've played a well geared, well prepared ranger.

Death_Claw September 05, 2013 08:10AM

Couldn't lag him and I had 2 attacks per round.

Matrik September 05, 2013 08:18AM

A competant orc won't get outmelee'd by a ranger on a road.

Death_Claw September 05, 2013 08:23AM

Player competency has nothing to do with how well RNG makes them melee.

Matrik September 05, 2013 08:26AM

Sure it does.

Death_Claw September 05, 2013 08:32AM

Sounds less like competency and more like "time to waste."

Matrik September 05, 2013 08:36AM

I wouldn't fight good orc in civ, nothing to gain and everything to lose

zoskia September 05, 2013 06:11AM

I do know orcs. You won't kill my orcs with an out of the wilds ranger short of ganging.

laearrist September 04, 2013 07:04PM

For sure. Only crappy orc dies to ranger in civilized, but still: this is an advice to orcs thread.

Matrik September 04, 2013 07:12PM

This is a thread about advice for orcs. Countering your advice does not necessarily need to be paired with how to kill the orc back. (n/t)

Matrik September 04, 2013 06:32PM

You fight crappy rangers. (n/t)

Matrik September 04, 2013 06:03PM

Thing about rangers is...

Death_Claw September 05, 2013 03:16AM

Yep.

Matrik September 05, 2013 07:16AM

It's not that hard, especially considering the fact most rangers think orcs are free kills

Quas September 05, 2013 03:44AM

That's all I'm prodding for.

Matrik September 05, 2013 07:14AM

Depends on if the ranger is good or not.

Death_Claw September 05, 2013 03:51AM

24-8 Me vs. rangers on PBF orcs...

laearrist September 04, 2013 06:09PM

No need for me to discuss it. Zoskia takes care of that for me.

Matrik September 04, 2013 06:12PM

Orc vs. Greeting/Crashing Giant

laearrist September 04, 2013 05:40PM

Orc vs. Mace Spec

laearrist September 04, 2013 05:31PM

Orc vs. Dagger Spec

laearrist September 04, 2013 05:25PM

Few things.

Death_Claw September 05, 2013 09:50PM

Daytime Druid? (n/t)

wrathpuppet September 04, 2013 07:18AM

Re: Daytime Druid?

laearrist September 04, 2013 08:03AM

Is CoW call of the wild? Human druids with farmer edge should get battle cows. (n/t)

MiyagiYojimbo September 04, 2013 11:32AM

Good breakdown, I'll only add if you have save vs spell gear put it on. n/t

Death_Claw September 04, 2013 09:19AM

Excellent breakdown. (n/t)

wrathpuppet September 04, 2013 09:10AM

Thanks. Formatting could use some work, but meh. (n/t)

laearrist September 04, 2013 01:38PM

Orc vs Bard

laearrist September 04, 2013 06:49AM

Don't forget to trample bards that rest to avoid bashes (n/t)

Zheeser September 04, 2013 10:09AM

This is a good tip and not just for bards. (n/t)

laearrist September 04, 2013 01:38PM

Untested, but I beleive thieves can push people to your trample (n/t)

Zheeser September 04, 2013 04:31PM

Orc vs Jerrotard

laearrist September 04, 2013 06:44AM

Orc Edges

laearrist September 04, 2013 06:41AM

What are your thoughts on demon in the woodpile

Demtok September 05, 2013 12:51PM

It's cheap and I like autoattacking paladins.....

Zruulg September 05, 2013 11:04PM

Goodie conjie is something I can take down...

laearrist September 06, 2013 04:43AM

I agree, that it is not worth it, text

Zheeser September 05, 2013 07:34PM

Not worth it... IMHO

laearrist September 05, 2013 03:37PM

Pit fighter made my last two skrugga a lot of fun

Zheeser September 04, 2013 04:36PM

I never had Pit Fighter

laearrist September 04, 2013 05:07PM

Skrugga

Zheeser September 04, 2013 10:31PM

Orc Skills + shameless Shigru plugs

laearrist September 04, 2013 06:23AM

Orc Stats (How to use your Trains)

laearrist September 04, 2013 06:22AM

Wis/int, practices and headbutt

Zheeser September 04, 2013 04:49PM

True, but what do you gain?

laearrist September 04, 2013 05:04PM

Extra trains

Zheeser September 05, 2013 09:08AM

So you agree with my words, but want to disagree overall just to do it?

Zheeser September 04, 2013 10:23PM



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