Lag prevents movements, but not command?

May 08, 2017 05:54AM
The guy who introduced me to CF thought of the idea for a solution to dealing with the inherent flaw in the lag system.

Or lag imposes limited command denial but full movement denial.
Increase or keep time the same, but make it so the guy bashed has an opportunity to at least attempt to counter.
Doesn't solve mages that can word in combat, but imagine a system where if you are bashed, you can still fight back, but at the same time you're unable to flee.
I know it overlaps with things like cutoff-entwine, but those would still have there big uses in that they either fire automatically, or they prevent fleeing for a set duration instead of a round or two.
If I look at a pincer, it's good damage, and lag 2 rounds. It's pretty stupid for an axe spec not to use pincer to the exclusion of anything else because it hits hard, prevents him from doing anything to you from two rounds, and prevents him from fleeing for two rounds. Why would you bother using much else in the majority of situations?

Require word to be the same as teleport, can not be used in combat. It still very much has it's place as it's not random. It never really made sense that you can use one but not the other in combat.

Look at it this way. I'm far more likely to engage in a PK when I have my full repertoire of class abilities at my disposal. Whereas when fighting someone that can grant complete command denial, I have no incentive to take on that fight because the whole basis of my PK efficacy is stripped from me. The flaw in command denial is it's just not fun for either party to a large extent. If you want PK to be more fun, give people a way to always meaningfully participate in it. Command denial does the opposite, it limits the user ability to impact the outcome, which reduces fun and makes it more routine and monotonous.

I would say make lag impose limited command denial, no more than a round, and existing or increased movement denial. Now you have to be judicious with when lag is the go to move. But by lumping movement in with command denial, the flaws become apparent, and the tactics narrowed. Now the axe spec may switch weapons, go for some maledictions, because while he can spam lag to hold the guy in place, he can't prevent the opponent from going for more damage through burst, or maledicting him to swing the fight in his favor. The fight becomes far less predictable, and far more engaging for each party.

I'm conservative as hell, but I'm not risk averse. It's just that when you play long enough, you know the fights that favor you and the ones that don't. But that dynamic shifts greatly when you say you'll be able to use your abilities to try and counter your opponent.

I will say this with 100% certainty. If bash prevented me from fleeing, but not singing, the fights between Krunk and Salyeris still would have been to the death (well mine, I still would have had a very difficult time pinning you down), but I would also wager they would have been far more entertaining for both of us. Moreover, I would have gone more out of my way to bring the fight to you, because it would not have felt as nearly one sided as it was in the current system, even if the end results were just as many elf corpses.
Subject Author Posted

Death Angel bugged on officials?

GoldenApple May 07, 2017 11:24AM

Pretty clearly the process is being run manually lately... Maybe someone doesn't know how to cron? IDK. (n/t)

laearrist May 07, 2017 03:31PM

Things seem to be going to shit in general.

Rhyaldrin May 07, 2017 05:00PM

I've reported them on the bug board

Kstatida May 08, 2017 12:18AM

Your characters are beta testing the new "CANT_LAG" flag. nt

Isildur(VIP) May 07, 2017 08:23PM

what happens if you actually take harmonious? unlaggable? (n/t)

jhyrbian May 07, 2017 05:02PM

Lessens lag that you receive.

Rhyaldrin May 07, 2017 05:05PM

Maybe they've finally figured out the lag system was flawed

zannon May 08, 2017 03:29AM

If they try to reinvent the wheel now they'll lose what little support still remains. (n/t)

Rhyaldrin May 08, 2017 06:22PM

I don't 100% disagree with you, but less carrion in the fields probably isn't overall for the good...

laearrist May 08, 2017 03:49AM

Fuck antigank code

Kstatida May 08, 2017 12:24PM

The problem it is trying to address, I think, is the effectiveness of permas...

laearrist May 08, 2017 12:26PM

Yeah I get the reasoning

Kstatida May 08, 2017 12:29PM

Some random thoughts I had... re: anti-gank code

laearrist May 08, 2017 12:58PM

The charge system should apply to quite a few things because well, character strength. Good post. (n/t)

NbM(VIP) May 08, 2017 03:27PM

The earlier one is really nice idea (n/t)

Kstatida May 08, 2017 01:08PM

Normalize equipment bonuses and wider range in weapon damage

PaulO May 08, 2017 05:35AM

Re: Normalize equipment bonuses and wider range in weapon damage

Isildur(VIP) May 08, 2017 06:18AM

Re: Normalize equipment bonuses and wider range in weapon damage

PaulO May 08, 2017 07:37AM

More Owaza type moves?

zannon May 08, 2017 04:02AM

Some ideas for enjoyable mechanics in this newer age

starbright May 08, 2017 06:04AM

Re: Some ideas for enjoyable mechanics in this newer age

laearrist May 08, 2017 08:36AM

Only purpose of non-interactive skill grind / exploration / gold-farming is to keep players online (i.e. prevent coordination problems)

starbright May 08, 2017 08:58AM

Yea. Maybe something that allows you to do skill practice if you have no one in PK or in who group, but if someone shows up, you can't learn skills or whatever anymore at all. Gotta go interact. (n/t)

laearrist May 08, 2017 09:39AM

Re: Some ideas for enjoyable mechanics in this newer age

Isildur(VIP) May 08, 2017 06:30AM

Yea, the counter to gang is gang... So more group play

laearrist May 08, 2017 04:31AM

Lag prevents movements, but not command?

zannon May 08, 2017 05:54AM

Available options

Kstatida May 08, 2017 12:28PM

Re: Specifically Orc vs Bard

laearrist May 08, 2017 08:07AM

Can't word in combat? So you want to make STSF more powerful than it is? Entwine, cutoff, STSF, thief cutoff, parting blow, entwine all implemented with combat word in mind. (n/t)

saagkri May 08, 2017 07:55AM

In all honesty, mages should die more often. Also warriors should have less magic available to them... So the answer is probably somewhere in between. (n/t)

laearrist May 08, 2017 08:38AM

Re: Lessens lag that you receive.

jhyrbian May 07, 2017 05:09PM

That would be a good way to get some attention drawn to it, if it worked that way and someone did it. (n/t)

Frosty May 07, 2017 05:37PM

I think she only works Tuesdays now (n/t)

wishore May 07, 2017 12:11PM



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