Yeah, in that case our views are aligned re: obamacare, but a daring proposal if I may

December 26, 2016 01:21AM
I had the impression that Obamacare extended coverage to the high-risk guys as well, and that's good. But it is true that insurers will "move" the burden of payment to the healthy guys, who will see premiums rise. The way I see it, Obamacare is trying to put a band-aid on a system that is inherently flawed.

I would propose something even more daring (and I know it sounds positively communist to Americans): universal healthcare, or at least universally-subsidized healthcare.

(1) Private healthcare gives incentives to providers to milk patients for money. For example, in many cases you do not need to buy any medicines you might get prescribed expensive medicines. Another case: instead of using cheap and effective generics, medical practitioners provide "branded" pharmaceuticals because of their close relationships with pharma companies and patients pay through their nose for them.

(2) Healthcare (AND VACCINATIONS!!) have strongly positive "externalities": these are impacts outside of the direct payment from patient to doctor. For example, vaccination reduces the spread of diseases, so they have impacts beyond the two parties involved in the exchange (doctor and patient). Vaccinations should be free. Wait, vaccinations should be mandatory and maybe accompanied with a cash prize or tax break. You really don't want your people to avoid getting healthcare on account of the cost, because the benefits accrue to the whole of society and not just their own health.

(3) Birth control and abortions are one of the most effective means of reducing unwanted births, and unwanted births have a strong correlation with criminality and unemployment of the child in question. These should be provided for free, no questions asked, no shaming inflicted on the woman. Of course if the majority of Americans have a religious issue with that, then that's up to Americans to decide if their religious morals outweigh the societal benefits.

Addressing the counterpoints to universal healthcare:

(4) There will be no competition driving costs down. Not true, you can have multiple private companies which compete purely on cost reduction but not on pricing of medicine and treatment. They will be paid a top-up by the government to cover the subsidized pricing. They can still compete on how well they can cut costs.

(5) There will be an incentive for people to seek free healthcare for frivolous things. Disagree with this, because in the first place nobody likes going to the hospital. But if that's really a concern, maybe subsidize healthcare by 90%. That will make it very cheap and at the same time still retain some economic incentive for patients.

(6) There will be an incentive for people to get fat and eat crap. Again, disagree because people don't like being fat and unhealthy if they had the willpower to help it. I would actually suggest that everyone is free to take a fitness test every year, and if they pass it they get a cash prize. So this gives a bit of an incentive for people to do some exercise.
Subject Author Posted

For vortexmagus

PaulO December 20, 2016 11:31AM

fuck double posted (n/t)

vortexmagus December 21, 2016 05:28PM

Like your sources. (n/t)

Frosty December 21, 2016 07:10PM

So I actually like debating with you

vortexmagus December 21, 2016 05:28PM

To summarize...

Death_Claw March 20, 2017 09:37AM

You do realize that their conclusion is "We think it was Russia" not "It was Russia"

Nurok December 22, 2016 10:24AM

Well, there's a reason for that.

MiyagiYojimbo December 22, 2016 02:11AM

So while your article is interesting, I'm not sure where your line of thought is leading to here

vortexmagus December 26, 2016 01:36AM

Sorry, Vortex, just saw this.

MiyagiYojimbo December 31, 2016 12:04PM

Interesting, curious to see how this pans out (n/t)

starbright December 22, 2016 02:21AM

Nice reads, thanks for sharing

starbright December 21, 2016 11:07PM

To me, whether or not Russia hacked the emails isn't the issue.

Jib December 22, 2016 09:04AM

Thanks: good to get your views

starbright December 22, 2016 09:47AM

Re: Thanks: good to get your views

Jib December 22, 2016 10:33AM

Some of these seem reasonable to me

starbright December 23, 2016 11:01AM

My thoughts on your thoughts: Everything else

vortexmagus December 26, 2016 12:46AM

Re: My thoughts on your thoughts: Everything else

starbright December 26, 2016 06:39AM

Couple of remarks on your couple of thoughts, sporadic

Kstatida December 26, 2016 01:48AM

My thoughts on your thoughts: health insurance

vortexmagus December 26, 2016 12:17AM

If you behave well enough, you might even get normal healthcare someday

Kstatida December 26, 2016 01:30AM

We agree on this. I think Obamacare was terrible, its just a big step up from the shitshow that came before it, that Trump wants to go back to. (n/t)

vortexmagus December 26, 2016 01:34AM

You mean when working people had affordable healthcare?

Rhyaldrin December 26, 2016 02:26AM

That's the core of the problem

Kstatida December 26, 2016 03:21AM

I think it's quite specific to the US. Most other countries (even developing ones) have healthcare coverage for emergencies

starbright December 26, 2016 05:22AM

Singapore is unique and interesting

Kstatida December 26, 2016 05:30AM

Yeah the country has a large population of migrant workers who do not have welfare privileges

starbright December 26, 2016 06:51AM

Yeah, in that case our views are aligned re: obamacare, but a daring proposal if I may

starbright December 26, 2016 01:21AM

About 1)...if you're ever bored and want some interesting reading, check out the Pharm companies efforts to keep medicinal marijuana from being legalized. NT

Sam December 26, 2016 01:49AM

This seems exactly like the sorts of things pharma companies might be incentivized to do! (n/t)

starbright December 26, 2016 05:15AM

I'm not sure there is market research available

Kstatida December 26, 2016 01:53AM

I mean, I completely agree, Obamacare is inherently flawed and universal healthcare is far more efficient/effective.

vortexmagus December 26, 2016 01:32AM

Some thoughts

Kstatida December 24, 2016 12:46AM

Didn't know that about the TPP, good to know

starbright December 24, 2016 02:07AM

RE: media favoring trump

Nurok December 22, 2016 09:15AM

Good point.For all the retards who bought into it, I guess we have to give a lot of folks credit for seeing through the B.S.

Jib December 22, 2016 09:23AM

That's my favorite thing about this whole election.

MiyagiYojimbo December 22, 2016 01:24PM

Fucking Nexus ruining shit again. God dammit. NT

Sam December 22, 2016 01:29PM

Holy shit! Nice catch, Sam.

MiyagiYojimbo December 22, 2016 01:33PM

I actually wonder

Kstatida December 21, 2016 09:34PM

But, but, but.. the CIA!!!!!

NbM(VIP) December 20, 2016 12:03PM



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