liberal economic lies vs. conservative economic lies

May 02, 2017 04:15PM
Quote
physics
Why do conservatives insist that the rich are our economic salvation? I actually appreciate big successfull businesses. I despise the greedy fucks earning 1000x their workers. For my entire life I've thought that a strong middle class was an American ideal. How do rich people extracting hundreds of millions of dollars out of our economy for their own personal income benefit the economy? An economy of luxury goods is a shitty economy.
I said in the other post I'm in favor of a progressive tax rate. And I hope I haven't suggested that rich are our economic salvation. As an aside, I don't share your hatred of Bill Gates (or Jeff Bezos) though. I think both provided a good product that helped to revolutionize their industries, and continue to do so. I think Bill Gates has been doing more with his wealth than most governments through attempting to eliminate some contagious diseases worldwide, which is unheard of in human history. I don't want to get sidetracked, but do you really think taking money from them and giving it to the government is smart?

But that is a little beside the fact that taxing the 400 richest people 100% of their income can't sustain our costs unless the economy turns around.

Quote
physics
Henry Ford paid is workers more, and then they could afford his cars.
Yeah, he ran a manufacturing plant. I agree we need more of those.

Quote
physics
The liberal dream is for a strong middle class that can own land, and start their own businesses. If it weren't for the wealth vaccuum upward I'd be earning about $9,000 a year more (see citation). With 9000 more per year I'd be able to provide for my family better. I'd probably be investing more towards my own retirement, the local economy, and my private property. What is Sundar Pichai (CEO of google) going to do with the $9000?
Your $9k number is based on "if the level of U.S. inequality had stayed the same since 1979". Inequality is not the basis of how well an economy is doing. It can be a part of it, but by itself it is a very incomplete picture. Let me give you an example. If I make $1 and you make $3, you make 3 times what I do. If my income changes to $0.50 and yours goes up to $4, the inequality changed from 3 times to 8 times. If my income changes to $0.25, the difference is 16 times, even though the richer person's income didn't change at all.

Income inequality by itself does not tell us the health of an economy. Some of those charts are really good. I like the ones that talk about stagnation of wages. I agree 100% with that. The chart I posted comparing incomes over different periods of time said the same thing. I think we both agree that incomes for the bottom 80% are stagnant.

Quote
physics
Our economy is stronger than ever. More wealth is being generated than ever. It's just all of it goes to the top earners. THat's destroying us. I say the wealthy are ruining the country. We need a new economy which supports smaller more localized businesses.

[inequality.org]

No, our economy is in the toilet. The top 5% have, on average, less increase in income the past 20 years than from the 1940s to 1970s. Go back and look at that chart I posted again. The top 5% are making money, yes, but it is increasing slower than it used to be. This is another indication of a shitty economy. You can try to point at the top 1% or top 400 richest people, but that too is misleading. We don't have anyone alive in America today whose wealth compares to a Rockefeller, Carnegie, Vanderbilt, or Ford, or the inequality between them and the rest. [www.celebritynetworth.com] There have always been a handful of hyper rich people. How the 400 richest people are doing is a poor indication of the health of an economy.

I personally think that wages are a good indication of the health of an economy, and discretionary income. I would prefer to find a chart that goes back to at least the 1940s or 1950s (or further), but here you go:



Just as what eventually happened with every single great cultural civilization of the past, the West is in a state of decline.

- Paul
Subject Author Posted

Meet a liberal day. (the issues only).

physics May 02, 2017 09:39AM

Re: Meet a liberal day. (the issues only).

Rade May 20, 2017 12:06PM

Re: Meet a liberal day. (the issues only).

Quixotic May 22, 2017 04:55PM

Re: Meet a liberal day. (the issues only).

Rade May 22, 2017 08:41PM

I am curious about your underlying assumptions.

Quixotic May 23, 2017 03:44PM

Re: I am curious about your underlying assumptions.

Rade May 24, 2017 04:59AM

To be fair

Kstatida May 21, 2017 02:35AM

Read _Dark Money_

Quixotic May 14, 2017 05:14PM

You're right about abortion. We also need infanticide clinics.

Rhyaldrin May 04, 2017 03:55PM

Hah (n/t)

TJHuron May 06, 2017 03:51AM

That's a good way, I also propose an enhancement

Kstatida May 04, 2017 10:00PM

Re: Meet a liberal day. (the issues only).

Balrahd May 03, 2017 10:04AM

my manifesto. txt

Isildur(VIP) May 10, 2017 07:42AM

As a citizen of country with VAT, I'm obliged to say

Kstatida May 10, 2017 08:21AM

Re: As a citizen of country with VAT, I'm obliged to say

Isildur(VIP) May 10, 2017 09:40AM

Re: As a citizen of country with VAT, I'm obliged to say

Kstatida May 10, 2017 10:12PM

some observations about this: txt

Isildur(VIP) May 10, 2017 07:52AM

we definitely need more death...ahem...estate taxes.

The Forsaken(VIP) May 03, 2017 12:52PM

Re: Meet a liberal day. (the issues only).

Jib May 03, 2017 10:45AM

Re: Meet a liberal day. (the issues only).

Balrahd May 03, 2017 11:13AM

Gotcha.

Jib May 03, 2017 12:12PM

Filing separately only makes the marriage penalty worse

zannon May 04, 2017 02:26AM

There can be a marriage penalty

zannon May 03, 2017 11:04AM

Taxes are a tough thing to fix

zannon May 03, 2017 10:13AM

Re: Child credit is capped but there is a floor of $600

Balrahd May 03, 2017 11:05AM

Re: Trump tax plan

Jib May 03, 2017 12:05PM

I hate labels.

Jib May 02, 2017 10:24PM

Publically funded religious schools are unconstitutional

physics May 03, 2017 03:02AM

debatable. txt

Isildur(VIP) May 04, 2017 12:57PM

Call it a private school tax credit and let me decide what to do with it.

Jib May 03, 2017 07:56AM

It's not the public-ness of the school that is the problem

starbright May 03, 2017 11:04AM

Re: It's not the public-ness of the school that is the problem

Balrahd May 04, 2017 12:39AM

It's not class sizes, it's ability diversity and capacity for handling student questions

starbright May 04, 2017 02:35AM

Re: It's not class sizes, it's ability diversity and capacity for handling student questions

Balrahd May 04, 2017 10:24AM

I think, encourage what they are interested in.

Jib May 04, 2017 12:18PM

Yeah, actually you're right that most pursuits have an unequal talent distribution

starbright May 04, 2017 11:18AM

I don't really know about U.S., do you have academic contests or something?

Kstatida May 04, 2017 11:14AM

No. Everyone needs a participation prize. We don't want kids to feel bad about losing.

Jib May 04, 2017 12:21PM

^ recommended by Lenin to read and think on

Kstatida May 04, 2017 12:56AM

Re: recommended by Lenin

Murphy May 04, 2017 06:19AM

#4 is most important to me

PaulO May 03, 2017 06:58PM

I agree.

Jib May 03, 2017 12:33PM

Interesting correlations with schooling outcomes

starbright May 03, 2017 11:45PM

we need mo' money for dem programs. (n/t)

Rhyaldrin May 04, 2017 12:00AM

Re: we need mo' money for dem programs.

Kstatida May 04, 2017 12:51AM

gibs me dat. (n/t)

Rhyaldrin May 04, 2017 01:07AM

It's equalization that makes public schools bad

Kstatida May 03, 2017 08:05AM

Yep, exactly.

Jib May 03, 2017 08:20AM

That's interesting

Kstatida May 03, 2017 08:22AM

The argument is, that educating them is better than having masses of uneducated kids growing up into masses of uneducated, poor adults.

Jib May 03, 2017 08:35AM

So they're not exactly illegal

Kstatida May 03, 2017 08:37AM

Something like that.

Jib May 03, 2017 08:44AM

Hi. Meet a right-leaning anarchist total-isolationist traditionalist.

PaulO May 02, 2017 12:28PM

not to trumpet late stage capitalism, but, it applies here

The Forsaken(VIP) May 03, 2017 05:40AM

The problem with cronyism

PaulO May 03, 2017 06:45PM

The liberal economic dream.

physics May 02, 2017 01:26PM

Women's liberation is the reason for wage stagnation, not greedy rich people

Rade May 22, 2017 06:23PM

Because we are a country of Wealth worshippers

ORB May 03, 2017 04:53AM

This wall of text is offensive.

Rhyaldrin May 03, 2017 07:29PM

Buy local, even if it is more expensive. (n/t)

PaulO May 03, 2017 06:47PM

That's the rule I live by. My wife hates me for this

Kstatida May 03, 2017 11:08PM

Yeah agree that there is an unwarranted worship of the wealthy

starbright May 03, 2017 10:44AM

Funnily enough

Kstatida May 03, 2017 05:04AM

liberal economic lies vs. conservative economic lies

PaulO May 02, 2017 04:15PM

Re: The liberal economic dream.

Jib May 02, 2017 01:57PM

As another liberal agree with most of your points

starbright May 02, 2017 12:09PM



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