December 12, 2012 05:54AM
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Registered: 16 years ago
Posts: 8,968
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Quote
I'm not sure I'd agree here. We'd need operational definitions of natural and unnatural for this to work.
Semantics, fun! Well, EVERYTHING exists in nature, including the unnatural and artificial....So even those are natural, so everything is natural, WEEEE!
But no, I think it's as simple as looking across every behavior pattern of biological organisms across existence and examining similar qualities pre-socially adapted actions and all - and comparatively speaking, you'll find hebephilia quite easily and trans behavior not so much.
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I really think it's useful to draw the distinction between sex and gender. I firmly believe the latter is a social construct. I think a lot of things are social constructs. Usually if somebody is a male by sex they're also a man by gender. But if this person moves and functions within society according to the expectations we'd place on women, that person can legitimately be female by gender, and deserve to be acknowledged as such.
For the record, I think the suggestion that anyone would fap to that picture (the attractive women in it are too blurry) is ridiculous, but a lot of these reactions to it upset my neo-liberal hippy views.
I find an issue with separating sex and gender to an extent, because I view it as, the way they are often used, mechanisms for manipulation and deception instead of honesty - And I'm very very very big about being as objective and descriptive as possible (intellectual honesty, woo!) which is why I have no qualms with someone saying that I am bisexual or am engaging in gay behavior by liking traps. It would be dishonest and deceptive of me to attempt to negate that claim by saying "WELL THEY ARE SOCIALLY GIRLS, WELL THEY DISPLAY THE QUALITIES OF GIRLS, ETC" when none of those things mean that they ARE NOT male.
That isn't to say that I don't understand the social acts commonly engaged in by girls/boys. There is a reason why Baron, despite railing against gender binaries, engages in behavior stereotypical to a socialized female in an attempt to better display and convey his identification with that. I am fine with behaviors like this. I am fine with trannies, pre and post op. I am fine with traps. I'm fine with homos.
I am NOT FINE with people claiming they MUST be accepted because of their actions, that they MUST be called XYZ despite not being XYZ, or claiming that they ARE XYZ despite not being XYZ. To me it's a question of "what is" not "What I would prefer" - Hence cometh the Carl Sagan to say: "It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true".
This, to me, is just the same as furries who want to be called wolf/dog/etc. and claim to ACTUALLY be these things because that is what they identify with. In that case we could then instead of just using species come up with another term that we can use to represent a social version of species, like a social version of sex/gender. I don't like that. I view that as linguistically deceptive, and I don't appreciate mangling lingo to make us feel happier (people aren't starving, they're just macronutrientally deprived).
You also said 'and deserve to be acknowledged as such'. As a dirty Sartresian who faults everything on the individual, I don't think much anyone DESERVES anything. Nor do I think the circumstances you gave prescribe someone even DESERVING someone in the first place.
What makes me sad, very sad, is that I am extremely socially liberal. I am probably even more socially liberal than you (I'd be fine with TONS Of behaviors currently disliked due to social stigma), but I am extremely scientifically, fiscally, and linguistically conservative. I don't think you can just change reality to match your preferences. I hate Derrida, Deleuze, Lacan, and all the other numerous post-structuralist styled modern-Dada pseudophilosphical linguo-reality relative writers. That's crap, and that is currently why I hate college liberals.
The last part is very much tangential, but I thought it'd be unfair to not really cohesively present myself.
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Baroness |
December 10, 2012 06:34AM |
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Sam |
December 12, 2012 07:18PM |
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ghuljun_thul |
December 11, 2012 08:08AM |
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zen |
December 11, 2012 09:31AM |
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ghuljun_thul |
December 11, 2012 01:36PM |
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satchmo |
December 12, 2012 03:12PM |
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satchmo |
December 11, 2012 12:41PM |
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Baroness |
December 11, 2012 08:55AM |
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ghuljun_thul |
December 11, 2012 09:10AM |
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Rhyaldrin |
December 11, 2012 03:24AM |
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Baroness |
December 11, 2012 04:11AM |
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Batman |
December 11, 2012 03:28AM |
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Java |
December 11, 2012 12:09AM |
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Pro |
December 12, 2012 08:16PM |
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Baroness |
December 11, 2012 02:32AM |
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Batman |
December 11, 2012 06:25AM |
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MiyagiYojimbo |
December 11, 2012 08:38AM |
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MiyagiYojimbo |
December 11, 2012 08:41PM |
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Batman |
December 12, 2012 05:30AM |
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MiyagiYojimbo |
December 12, 2012 02:47PM |
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Demtok |
December 11, 2012 07:02PM |
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Batman |
December 11, 2012 08:40AM |
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MiyagiYojimbo |
December 11, 2012 09:21AM |
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istirith |
December 11, 2012 06:33AM |
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(vಠ_ಠ)> AngryFatKid |
December 11, 2012 06:12AM |
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Stevers |
December 14, 2012 06:22PM |
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RobDarken |
December 11, 2012 08:43AM |
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Baroness |
December 11, 2012 06:20AM |
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Batman |
December 11, 2012 06:15AM |
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Carl |
December 11, 2012 06:13AM |
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Rhyaldrin |
December 11, 2012 03:43AM |
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Java |
December 11, 2012 02:39AM |
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Quas |
December 11, 2012 04:21AM |
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Baroness |
December 11, 2012 04:20AM |
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RobDarken |
December 11, 2012 08:40AM |
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Pro |
December 12, 2012 08:18PM |
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Java |
December 12, 2012 11:31PM |
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Pro |
December 13, 2012 03:41PM |
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Baroness |
December 11, 2012 09:44AM |
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RobDarken |
December 11, 2012 10:52AM |
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tesline |
December 11, 2012 07:46AM |
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HairyOrangutan |
December 11, 2012 05:10AM |
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istirith |
December 11, 2012 07:16AM |
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Baroness |
December 11, 2012 07:18AM |
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Batman |
December 11, 2012 04:32AM |
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Elystan |
December 12, 2012 04:48AM |
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Batman |
December 12, 2012 05:54AM |
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Baroness |
December 12, 2012 10:04AM |
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Batman |
December 12, 2012 10:36AM |
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Elystan |
December 12, 2012 06:04AM |
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Batman |
December 12, 2012 06:18AM |
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Java |
December 11, 2012 04:31AM |
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Baroness |
December 11, 2012 05:40AM |
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Java |
December 11, 2012 01:47PM |
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Baroness |
December 12, 2012 04:29AM |
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Batman |
December 12, 2012 05:29AM |
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bell |
December 11, 2012 06:53AM |
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Artificial |
December 11, 2012 12:32AM |
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Java |
December 11, 2012 12:10AM |
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morocco |
December 10, 2012 08:16PM |
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morocco |
December 10, 2012 08:18PM |
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jalim |
December 11, 2012 02:03AM |
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Batman |
December 11, 2012 02:03AM |
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madglee |
December 10, 2012 08:09PM |
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Baroness |
December 11, 2012 04:11AM |
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Java |
December 10, 2012 11:52PM |
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tesline |
December 10, 2012 08:22PM |
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Seilclavin |
December 10, 2012 09:41AM |
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Quas |
December 10, 2012 11:36AM |
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Baroness |
December 10, 2012 11:44AM |
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Quas |
December 10, 2012 02:24PM |
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Rade |
December 10, 2012 01:24PM |
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Baroness |
December 10, 2012 04:36PM |
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Quas |
December 11, 2012 02:38AM |
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Batman |
December 11, 2012 02:50AM |
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RobDarken |
December 10, 2012 06:14PM |
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legobelt |
December 10, 2012 07:43PM |
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RobDarken |
December 10, 2012 04:58PM |
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Baroness |
December 10, 2012 05:09PM |
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RobDarken |
December 10, 2012 05:39PM |
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tesline |
December 10, 2012 05:48PM |
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Batman |
December 11, 2012 12:47AM |
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RobDarken |
December 10, 2012 06:07PM |
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Rade |
December 10, 2012 04:55PM |
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Baroness |
December 10, 2012 05:14PM |
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Rade |
December 10, 2012 05:36PM |
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Batman |
December 11, 2012 01:10AM |
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Artificial |
December 10, 2012 07:01PM |
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Batman |
December 11, 2012 02:21AM |
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Elystan |
December 12, 2012 04:53AM |
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Batman |
December 12, 2012 05:27AM |
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Elystan |
December 12, 2012 05:50AM |
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Java |
December 12, 2012 06:33AM |
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Batman |
December 12, 2012 06:36AM |
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Java |
December 12, 2012 06:45AM |
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Batman |
December 12, 2012 06:55AM |
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Java |
December 12, 2012 07:00AM |
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Sam |
December 12, 2012 07:30PM |
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Java |
December 12, 2012 11:29PM |
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RobDarken |
December 12, 2012 06:19AM |
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Baroness |
December 12, 2012 12:37PM |
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RobDarken |
December 12, 2012 02:04PM |
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Sam |
December 12, 2012 07:29PM |
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Batman |
December 12, 2012 06:00AM |
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Elystan |
December 12, 2012 06:30AM |
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wrathpuppet |
December 10, 2012 04:38PM |
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Pro |
December 10, 2012 09:40AM |
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Baroness |
December 10, 2012 09:57AM |
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Pro |
December 10, 2012 10:45AM |
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Baroness |
December 10, 2012 11:05AM |
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Pro |
December 10, 2012 11:15AM |
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Baroness |
December 10, 2012 11:33AM |
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Batman |
December 10, 2012 08:21AM |
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zoskia |
December 10, 2012 10:19AM |
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Baroness |
December 10, 2012 09:37AM |
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Batman |
December 10, 2012 09:49AM |
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ghuljun_thul |
December 10, 2012 10:40AM |
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Baroness |
December 10, 2012 09:54AM |
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ghuljun_thul |
December 10, 2012 10:44AM |
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Pro |
December 10, 2012 06:54AM |
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Carl |
December 10, 2012 06:58AM |
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Pro |
December 10, 2012 07:21AM |
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vortexmagus |
December 10, 2012 07:13AM |
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cenatar |
December 10, 2012 12:05PM |
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vortexmagus |
December 10, 2012 03:16PM |
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cenatar |
December 11, 2012 09:50AM |
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Pro |
December 12, 2012 08:58PM |
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tesline |
December 10, 2012 05:50PM |
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tesline |
December 10, 2012 12:26PM |
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Pro |
December 10, 2012 01:21PM |
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tesline |
December 10, 2012 01:30PM |
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Pro |
December 10, 2012 07:19AM |
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bell |
December 10, 2012 04:54PM |
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vortexmagus |
December 10, 2012 03:12PM |
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cenatar |
December 10, 2012 10:26AM |
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Pro |
December 10, 2012 11:03AM |
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cenatar |
December 10, 2012 11:26AM |
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Pro |
December 10, 2012 11:32AM |
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cenatar |
December 10, 2012 11:34AM |
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Pro |
December 10, 2012 11:38AM |
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cenatar |
December 10, 2012 11:41AM |
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Pro |
December 10, 2012 01:37PM |
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cenatar |
December 11, 2012 09:53AM |
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vortexmagus |
December 11, 2012 12:28PM |
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Pro |
December 12, 2012 07:21PM |
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vortexmagus |
December 10, 2012 04:48PM |
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tesline |
December 10, 2012 04:30PM |
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Baroness |
December 10, 2012 11:43AM |
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Leud |
December 10, 2012 07:33AM |
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Pro |
December 10, 2012 08:31AM |
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tesline |
December 10, 2012 12:33PM |
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Pro |
December 10, 2012 01:39PM |
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vortexmagus |
December 11, 2012 12:31PM |
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Pro |
December 12, 2012 07:23PM |
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Splntrd |
December 10, 2012 07:00AM |
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